Governor Jay Nixon Signs Missouriís Comprehensive Gun Bill Into Law! - Page 2

Governor Jay Nixon Signs Missouriís Comprehensive Gun Bill Into Law!

This is a discussion on Governor Jay Nixon Signs Missouriís Comprehensive Gun Bill Into Law! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by nedrgr21 NFA stuff is cool and so is the 21 age restriction, but now you have to fire 2x as many rounds ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    NFA stuff is cool and so is the 21 age restriction, but now you have to fire 2x as many rounds during the CCW qual - 70 from pistol + 70 from revolver. They didn't get the wording in 571.101 (1) to read concealed "weapons" instead of "firearms" to make it more clear that 571 allows CCW permit holders to carry fixed blade knives, etc.
    The qualifying includes 50 rounds from a revolver and 50 rounds from a semi-auto pistol, not 70 + 70. 20 test rounds each while instructor is present is also required. test rounds are practice rounds. They can literally be fired into the ground as long as the shooter is 7 yards from the target. Actually of the 100 rounds used for qualifying a combined total of 85 could be fired into the ground. Only 15 rounds inside the largest ring of a B-27 silhouette target are needed to pass live fire qualification.

    I agree with you regarding knives. The way the law reads now, folding fast opening gravity knives while not assisted and not automatic are a Grey area that could be considered illegal though they are widely sold in MO.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    (9) A live firing exercise of sufficient duration for each applicant to fire [a handgun] both a revolver and a semiautomatic pistol, from a standing position or its equivalent, a minimum of fifty rounds from each handgun at a distance of seven yards from a B-27 silhouette target or an equivalent target;

    (10) A live fire test administered to the applicant while the instructor was present of twenty rounds from each handgun from a standing position or its equivalent at a distance from a B-27 silhouette target, or an equivalent target, of seven yards.

    Point is: you now have to fire 2x as much ammo to complete the course. Just don't see what this requirement addresses as not everyone is going to carry both a revolver and a pistol and firing 70 rounds in a gun you may never carry doesn't make sense. Down the road if you decide to switch handguns, those 70 rnds you fired X yrs ago don't do you any good.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array 357and40's Avatar
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    Not long ago I was in a local gun shop & a female LEO was raising a stink about a weapon she had purchased jaming on her & calling it a P.O.S.... It was a Keltec. After all was told it turned out she was running reloads from her buddy which the keltec manual (i am told) forbids. Now for the pertinent part...

    She wanted a different weapon that was 40 cal (like her service weapon) and was thin (unlike her service weapon) that she could conceal when off duty. I will mention that her service weapon is a Sig P226.

    I suggested a Walther PPS in 40. She held it, loved it, but when she discovered the mag release was on the trigger guard she put it down citing that she would not deal with a weapon that she could not instinctually operate. She even said that if the PPS had a standard mag release she would buy it. I showed her how easy it was to train yourself to use it till it becomes second nature. She was highly resistant & made it clear that if it was not like her service weapon she had no desire to learn it.

    I walked for the door, turned back around & said "Officer, excuse me. I am not trying to be a jerk when I ask this. If you are involved in a shooting & your weapon malfunctions & the only weapon around is a Walther PPS or a 1911, or something that is not just like your service weapon, are you going to make the bad guy hang on a sec while you figure it out? Now is the time to learn as much about the tools of your trade as possible. The use of said tools is the best learning tool you can have while not under stress so you can make it automatic while under stress. If you wish to ignore my advice, buy a Sig P239 or learn to conceal your duty weapon and move on. Otherwise, step outside the box & buy the weapon that you like everything about but the trigger-guard mag-release."

    In the end she bought a Sccy. To this day I do not understand why people buy cheap items & complain about the fact that they are lower quality.

    The point I am making is that the test showing competency in revolver & semi-auto will only add to your ability to deal with whatever situation comes up. The more you become proficient with, the more options you have when TSHTF. Most Missouri instructors have a 22 revolver & a 22 semi-auto that students can borrow. Hell, my Walther P22 is on indefinite loan to an instructor locally.

    I will not argue that the number of rounds is a little odd especially in application of only 20 each in front of instructor, but I think getting folks to not just pidgeon-hole themselves is a good thing.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhšuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    (9) A live firing exercise of sufficient duration for each applicant to fire [a handgun] both a revolver and a semiautomatic pistol, from a standing position or its equivalent, a minimum of fifty rounds from each handgun at a distance of seven yards from a B-27 silhouette target or an equivalent target;

    (10) A live fire test administered to the applicant while the instructor was present of twenty rounds from each handgun from a standing position or its equivalent at a distance from a B-27 silhouette target, or an equivalent target, of seven yards.

    Point is: you now have to fire 2x as much ammo to complete the course. Just don't see what this requirement addresses as not everyone is going to carry both a revolver and a pistol and firing 70 rounds in a gun you may never carry doesn't make sense. Down the road if you decide to switch handguns, those 70 rnds you fired X yrs ago don't do you any good.
    I don't disagree with you at all.

    In MO, some instructors provide all guns and ammo for CCW classes and require that you do not bring your own firearm. Other instructors require you to bring your own. Missouri does not specify any specific caliber of firearm used for the live fire test. Where the range provides firearms, invariably, the choice for most has been a .22 semi-auto target pistol. A Browning Buckmark Camper or similar. Of those who selected a revolver, most would shoot SA/DA with hammer cocked.

    IMO, CCW applicants should have some prior practice experience. From what I have seen, as many as 20% of all people taking a CCW class have never fired a gun.

    I guess the two gun requirement is supposed to expose the shooter to both types of firearms. During a test is probably not the best time.
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  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array GunGeezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    Not long ago I was in a local gun shop & a female LEO was raising a stink about a weapon she had purchased jaming on her & calling it a P.O.S.... It was a Keltec. After all was told it turned out she was running reloads from her buddy which the keltec manual (i am told) forbids. Now for the pertinent part...

    She wanted a different weapon that was 40 cal (like her service weapon) and was thin (unlike her service weapon) that she could conceal when off duty. I will mention that her service weapon is a Sig P226.

    I suggested a Walther PPS in 40. She held it, loved it, but when she discovered the mag release was on the trigger guard she put it down citing that she would not deal with a weapon that she could not instinctually operate. She even said that if the PPS had a standard mag release she would buy it. I showed her how easy it was to train yourself to use it till it becomes second nature. She was highly resistant & made it clear that if it was not like her service weapon she had no desire to learn it.

    I walked for the door, turned back around & said "Officer, excuse me. I am not trying to be a jerk when I ask this. If you are involved in a shooting & your weapon malfunctions & the only weapon around is a Walther PPS or a 1911, or something that is not just like your service weapon, are you going to make the bad guy hang on a sec while you figure it out? Now is the time to learn as much about the tools of your trade as possible. The use of said tools is the best learning tool you can have while not under stress so you can make it automatic while under stress. If you wish to ignore my advice, buy a Sig P239 or learn to conceal your duty weapon and move on. Otherwise, step outside the box & buy the weapon that you like everything about but the trigger-guard mag-release."

    In the end she bought a Sccy. To this day I do not understand why people buy cheap items & complain about the fact that they are lower quality.

    The point I am making is that the test showing competency in revolver & semi-auto will only add to your ability to deal with whatever situation comes up. The more you become proficient with, the more options you have when TSHTF. Most Missouri instructors have a 22 revolver & a 22 semi-auto that students can borrow. Hell, my Walther P22 is on indefinite loan to an instructor locally.

    I will not argue that the number of rounds is a little odd especially in application of only 20 each in front of instructor, but I think getting folks to not just pidgeon-hole themselves is a good thing.
    Consider also, if this officer made a routine stop where the person was legally carrying and she had to secure his/her weapon. How safe would you feel with her trying to secure a gun with which she has no knowledge or experience and doesn't appear to have the patience to become acquainted?

  6. #21
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    GunGeezer you hit on the point that my LEO buddy & I were talking about after I told him about this. There is a large percentage of LEOs that are not gun people. Imagine an LEO (unlike the LEOs that would likely join a forum devoted to the art of carry) who has never handled anything but their Glock (and only training for qualifications to beat the bare minimum) coming in contact with a 1911 or an old school SA revolver or a revolver that requires a poker to remove casings from the cylinder.

    I have met Officers that were gun people through & through & I have met Officers that hate the fact that they have to carry a firearm.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhšuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    Do not fool yourselves... the reason this bill went through was:

    Enabling members of the General Assembly and their staff who possess valid concealed carry endorsements to carry a firearm for self-defense in the Capitol.
    This was NOT the reason the bill passed. And the only change was that legislative staff are now allowed to carry. The legislators have always been able to since the original ccw bill was passed 2003.
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  8. #23
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    My understanding was that their staff were not able to carry in the capitol buildings until the revision passed.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhšuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
    - Roy Batty

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