US Senate stands with NRA

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    Hey, they got this one right!
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    Well, 51 is all that is needed for now, but the fact that another 49 do not feel that way is troubling. I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but numbers can change quickly!
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    Forty-five Republicans signed Senator Moran's letter, the last two paragraphs of which sum up:
    Fifth, and finally, the underlying philosophy of the Arms Trade Treaty is that transfers to and from governments are presumptively legal, while transfers to non-state actors (such as terrorists and criminals) are, at best, problematic. We agree that sales and transfers to criminals and terrorists are unacceptable, but we will oppose any treaty that places the burden of controlling crime and terrorism on law-abiding Americans, instead of where it belongs: on the culpable member states of the United Nations who have failed to take the necessary steps to block trafficking that is already illegal under existing laws and agreements.

    As the treaty process continues, we strongly encourage your Administration to uphold our country’s constitutional protections of civilian firearms ownership. These freedoms are not negotiable, and we will oppose ratification of an Arms Trade Treaty presented to the Senate that in any way restricts the rights of law-abiding U.S. citizens to manufacture, assemble, possess, transfer or purchase firearms, ammunition, and related items.
    As there are forty-seven Republican senators, I'm curious to see who the others are who notified Obama that they are pro-2A and against a UN gun-grab on domestic, US soil.

    Forty-nine senators have for majority constituents. They want to turn this country in the direction of the rest of the world. Our country is too far gone in that direction already as evidenced by our sliding economy in the face of increased spending = bigger government.

    I'm notifying my senators to reconsider their progressive interpretation of their oath of office:
    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

    "Support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" - and why not against wolves in sheeps clothing - "culpable member states of the United Nations who have failed to take the necessary steps to block trafficking that is already illegal under existing laws and agreements"?
    "Bear true faith and allegiance to the same" - in the presence of enemies and treaty-signing "friends" not attempt to abandon faith in and allegiance to the original intent of the Constitution by the treaty ratification process.
    "Well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter" - and not throw 2A out with tripping over yourself to genuflect to foreign powers.

    This is too much bad government - a regression to the bad old days when tinhorns in congress held civil rights in abeyance with as much respect for the Constitution as DC and Chicago mayors and their lackeys have for 2A.

    The Constitution is to protect us citizens from such tyranny as this foreign grab of domesticc guns and other more direct attempts to disempower the free individual whether our own representatives stoop to such folly no.
    [/soapbox]

    Time is nigh to learn more of the treaty ratification process. Does SCOTUS have a say?

    This site says
    The U.S. Supreme Court has made it very clear that

    1) Treaties do not override the U.S. Constitution.
    2) Treaties cannot amend the Constitution. And last,

    3) A treaty can be nullified by a statute passed by the U.S. Congress (or by a sovereign State or States if Congress refuses to do so), when the State deems a treaty the performance of a treaty is self-destructive. The law of self-preservation overrules the law of obligation in others. When you've read this thoroughly, hopefully, you will never again sit quietly by when someone -- anyone -- claims that treaties supercede the Constitution. Help to dispell this myth.

    "This [Supreme] Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty." - Reid v. Covert, October 1956, 354 U.S. 1, at pg 17.

    This case involved the question: Does the NATO Status of Forces Agreement (treaty) supersede the U.S. Constitution? Keep reading.

    The Reid Court (U.S. Supreme Court) held in their Opinion that,

    "... No agreement with a foreign nation can confer power on the Congress, or any other branch of government, which is free from the restraints of the Constitution. Article VI, the Supremacy clause of the Constitution declares, "This Constitution and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all the Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land...’
    "There is nothing in this language which intimates that treaties and laws enacted pursuant to them do not have to comply with the provisions of the Constitution nor is there anything in the debates which accompanied the drafting and ratification which even suggest such a result...

    "It would be manifestly contrary to the objectives of those who created the Constitution, as well as those who were responsible for the Bill of Rights – let alone alien to our entire constitutional history and tradition – to construe Article VI as permitting the United States to exercise power UNDER an international agreement, without observing constitutional prohibitions. (See: Elliot’s Debates 1836 ed. – pgs 500-519).

    "In effect, such construction would permit amendment of that document in a manner not sanctioned by Article V. The prohibitions of the Constitution were designed to apply to all branches of the National Government and they cannot be nullified by the Executive or by the Executive and Senate combined."
    Last edited by Pistology; July 24th, 2011 at 12:53 AM.
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    Great post pistology. One would hope that among the advisors and legal beagles running around in DC that this has been brought to the attention of those pushing this treaty agenda. If so, then why would they continue? Are they so eager to patronize foreign dignitaries pushing an agenda to knowingly waste vast legal resources in the process of eventually being ruled null and void by SCOTUS? That's crazy.
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    While signing a letter stating they will oppose the treaty if it comes to the Senate for ratification is nice. However we need to remember, they are all politicians. As such I wouldn't trust what they say, until it is actually put to a vote! I've seen too many times when votes were changed so they could get support down the road for a "pet project" they wanted.
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    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    Got this responce from my Senator:






    July 25, 2011



    Dear XXXXX:

    Thank you for contacting me to express your concerns regarding the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty (ATT). I appreciate hearing your view on this important matter and having the opportunity to respond.

    As your United States Senator, I defend the rights of citizens to use firearms responsibly for recreational purposes or to protect one's home and family. At the same time, I support efforts to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and those who seek to disrupt the rule of law.

    The largely unregulated and often irresponsible trade in conventional weapons is causing a dangerous increase in the trafficking and distribution of weapons to rogue states, terrorist groups, and factions seeking to unsettle regions. In defense of our national security, the United States must continue to support effective action to control the international transfer of arms.

    On October 30, 2009, U.N. members voted in favor of working towards an Arms Trade Treaty. At this point, there is no text for the Treaty, as Member States are still in the process of holding preparatory committee meetings to discuss possible provisions for inclusion. The most recent preparatory committee meeting was held in July 2011, and there one more scheduled for February 2012 before a final treaty is drafted at the UN conference on the ATT in the summer of 2012.

    The essence of ATT is to raise international standards on arms transfers so that no country will allow individuals operating under its jurisdiction to sell arms intended to perpetuate terrorism and fuel atrocities. ATT is not expected to affect domestic possession or domestic transfer of conventional weapons.

    As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, please be assured that I will continue to monitor the progress of this treaty, and keep your views in mind should the Arms Trade Treaty come before the Senate for consideration.

    On this, as with any other issue, there are many different views. Rest assured that I will keep your views in mind. I invite you to visit my website (Robert Menendez - US Senator for New Jersey: Home) to learn more about how I am standing up for New Jersey families in the United States Senate.








    I then attempted to reply, and received an automated email repsonce basically saying I can not send email to this address.

    He very carefully said "ATT is not expected to affect domestic possession or domestic transfer of conventional weapons. " Unfortunately "not expected" means it can impact. I think anyone that votes yes for this should be held on treason charges, of course this will never happen.

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    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    12 pro-gun Democrat senators sent a letter to president Obama today:

    http://static.usnews.com/documents/w...er20110726.pdf

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    Lets all hope that its enough.

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    As your United States Senator, I defend the rights of citizens to use firearms responsibly for recreational purposes or to protect one's home and family. At the same time, I support efforts to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and those who seek to disrupt the rule of law.

    The largely unregulated and often irresponsible trade in conventional weapons is causing a dangerous increase in the trafficking and distribution of weapons to rogue states, terrorist groups, and factions seeking to unsettle regions. In defense of our national security, the United States must continue to support effective action to control the international transfer of arms.
    Doublespeak.

    "Unrequlated and often irresponsible trade"...means Private Citizens in U.N. lingo.

    Make no mistake. This man is not a friend to gunowners.

    The essence of ATT is to raise international standards on arms transfers so that no country will allow individuals operating under its jurisdiction to sell arms intended to perpetuate terrorism and fuel atrocities.
    And they are going to regulate " individuals" how?

    ATT is not expected to affect domestic possession or domestic transfer of conventional weapons.
    Which means that when it does, they can say that they "didnt know" and deny any and all support...while things tighten up considerably.

    These proffesional speechwriters may have many people fooled...but not all of them.
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    pssst let me tell you a secret.... They dont care. Its showboating!
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    12 pro-gun Democrat senators sent a letter to president Obama today:

    http://static.usnews.com/documents/w...er20110726.pdf
    Thanks, Sig 210. This is the letter that I'm sending to my Democratic senators. It isn't a score card. I firmly believe that my representatives are fully entitled to my opinion
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    pssst let me tell you a secret.... They dont care. Its showboating!

    Roger that, Tango. This is a "sideshow" compared to the Debt Ceiling Circus. So many wringing hands; and
    Default will rock our financial system to its core -Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.
    That played so well with TARP that it's held over as an act in the current production. If our financial system can't get along without Harry Reid, then one of 'em outta go, and let the chips fall. Incredible how many crises politicians can save us from for a price, isn't it?
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    As promised, letter sent to my two senators:
    Senator [Feinstein and Boxer]:

    Please join the dozen Democratic senators who have expressed concerns about the potential of the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty to infringe on the rights of law-abiding American citizens to keep and bear arms.
    These senators believe that other nations of the world may better adopt and enforce a more rigorous system of arms export controls. The senators urge the president to address their concerns that 1) the Arms Trade Treaty not regulate the domestic manufacture, possession or sales of firearms or ammunition, that 2) the treaty signatory countries maintain the exclusive authority to regulate arms within their own borders, that 3) the treaty exclude small arms, light weapons, ammunition or related materials that would make the treaty overly broad and unenforceable, and that 4) the treaty omit any sort of international gun registry that could impede upon the privacy rights of law-abiding gun owners.
    The senators' names are:
    Jon tester (D - MT)
    Jeanne Shaheen (D - NH)
    Mark Begich (D - AK)
    Claire McCaskill (D - MO)
    Max Baucus (D - MT)
    Joe Manchin, III (D - WV)
    Mark L. Pryor (D - AR)
    Robert P. Casey, Jr. (D - PA)
    Tom Udall (D - NM)
    Ben Nelson (D - NE)
    Jim Webb (D - VA)
    Mark R. Warner (D - VA)
    Mark Udall (D - CO)

    Please affirm your oath to "Support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" including wolves in sheeps' clothing - "culpable member states of the United Nations who have failed to take the necessary steps to block trafficking that is already illegal under existing laws and agreements"; to "Bear true faith and allegiance to the same" - including the Second Amendment; to "Well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office" to acheive international cooperation with respect to and not counter to our Constitution.
    I want them to know my support of 2A. "Culpable member states of the United Nations who have failed to take the necessary steps to black trafficking that is already illegal under existing laws and agreements" may strike close to home with developments of "Fast and Furious" about which I have already written my senators even with a reply:
    Tuesday, May 10, 2011 10:16 AM

    Dear Mr. P[istology]:

    I received your letter and appreciate knowing your concerns regarding the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). It is helpful for me to hear your perspective on this issue.

    I recognize that there are many law-abiding gun owners who use their weapons for activities such as hunting and sport in a safe and effective manner, and I support an individual's Second Amendment right to own a gun. At the same time, the problem of gun violence in this country is a serious one, so I support reasonable measures to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, unsupervised children, and the mentally deranged.

    With its responsibility to enforce federal firearms laws, ATF has the important task of stopping the illegal use and trafficking of firearms. I believe Congress should provide ATF with the resources and tools it needs so that the federal government can keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

    I am aware that, recently, there have been criticisms of "Project Gunrunner," an ATF initiative to investigate and stop the trafficking of firearms across the border to Mexico. According to media reports, ATF agents have alleged that as part of the initiative's "Operation Fast and Furious," ATF knowingly let firearms be trafficked across the border as part of its investigation. Two guns related to "Operation Fast and Furious" were also found at the scene of the December 14, 2010, murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, but ATF has stated that neither of the guns were the murder weapon.

    Please know that Attorney General Eric Holder has asked the Inspector General of the Department of Justice to review the situation; the Inspector General is responsible for conducting internal and independent investigations of the Department to ensure its employees and programs abide by the law and act in the best interest of the Nation. I look forward to reviewing the Inspector General's report to see what, if any, recommendations are made with regard to ATF's policies and procedures.

    As a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which has oversight over ATF, I will certainly keep your thoughts in mind should this issue be debated in the future. If you have any additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841, or visit my website at United States Senator Dianne Feinstein.

    Sincerely yours,

    Dianne Feinstein
    United States Senator
    Basically, a wait-and-see. By now, there is blood in the water. Sharks can be beautiful.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Senator [Feinstein and Boxer]:

    Please join the dozen Democratic senators who have expressed concerns about the potential of the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty to infringe on the rights of law-abiding American citizens to keep and bear arms.
    These senators believe that other nations of the world may better adopt and enforce a more rigorous system of arms export controls. The senators urge the president to address their concerns that 1) the Arms Trade Treaty not regulate the domestic manufacture, possession or sales of firearms or ammunition, that 2) the treaty signatory countries maintain the exclusive authority to regulate arms within their own borders, that 3) the treaty exclude small arms, light weapons, ammunition or related materials that would make the treaty overly broad and unenforceable, and that 4) the treaty omit any sort of international gun registry that could impede upon the privacy rights of law-abiding gun owners.
    The senators' names are:
    Jon tester (D - MT)
    Jeanne Shaheen (D - NH)
    Mark Begich (D - AK)
    Claire McCaskill (D - MO)
    Max Baucus (D - MT)
    Joe Manchin, III (D - WV)
    Mark L. Pryor (D - AR)
    Robert P. Casey, Jr. (D - PA)
    Tom Udall (D - NM)
    Ben Nelson (D - NE)
    Jim Webb (D - VA)
    Mark R. Warner (D - VA)
    Mark Udall (D - CO)

    Please affirm your oath to "Support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" including wolves in sheeps' clothing - "culpable member states of the United Nations who have failed to take the necessary steps to block trafficking that is already illegal under existing laws and agreements"; to "Bear true faith and allegiance to the same" - including the Second Amendment; to "Well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office" to acheive international cooperation with respect to and not counter to our Constitution.
    Tuesday, May 10, 2011 10:16 AM

    Dear Mr. P[istology]:

    I received your letter and appreciate knowing your concerns regarding the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). It is helpful for me to hear your perspective on this issue.

    I recognize that there are many law-abiding gun owners who use their weapons for activities such as hunting and sport in a safe and effective manner, and I support an individual's Second Amendment right to own a gun. At the same time, the problem of gun violence in this country is a serious one, so I support reasonable measures to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, unsupervised children, and the mentally deranged.

    With its responsibility to enforce federal firearms laws, ATF has the important task of stopping the illegal use and trafficking of firearms. I believe Congress should provide ATF with the resources and tools it needs so that the federal government can keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

    I am aware that, recently, there have been criticisms of "Project Gunrunner," an ATF initiative to investigate and stop the trafficking of firearms across the border to Mexico. According to media reports, ATF agents have alleged that as part of the initiative's "Operation Fast and Furious," ATF knowingly let firearms be trafficked across the border as part of its investigation. Two guns related to "Operation Fast and Furious" were also found at the scene of the December 14, 2010, murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, but ATF has stated that neither of the guns were the murder weapon.

    Please know that Attorney General Eric Holder has asked the Inspector General of the Department of Justice to review the situation; the Inspector General is responsible for conducting internal and independent investigations of the Department to ensure its employees and programs abide by the law and act in the best interest of the Nation. I look forward to reviewing the Inspector General's report to see what, if any, recommendations are made with regard to ATF's policies and procedures.

    As a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, which has oversight over ATF, I will certainly keep your thoughts in mind should this issue be debated in the future. If you have any additional comments or questions, please do not hesitate to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841, or visit my website at United States Senator Dianne Feinstein.

    Sincerely yours,

    Dianne Feinstein
    United States Senator
    I'm confused?! The answer to your letter has nothing to do with the UN Arms Treaty. I realize Feinstein is an idiot, but I don't think she'd reply with a letter addressing the Gun Runner scandal when asked to vote against the UN Arms Treaty.
    oneshot likes this.
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