Obamas executive order gun grab

This is a discussion on Obamas executive order gun grab within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by adric22 Well, here I'm not sure I can agree. Haven't you read this whole scandal the ATF has been dealing with where ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Well, here I'm not sure I can agree. Haven't you read this whole scandal the ATF has been dealing with where they allowed hundreds of guns to be sold to drug lords? Where did these sales happen? At local gun stores.



    While I'll agree that there are anti-gunners out there who have a stated goal of banning all weapons by introducing one piece of gun control at a time, I think those particular people are in the minority. As long as we stand up for our rights we will never allow them to go that far. I am willing to have a slight inconvenience as long as that means there is some effective good come out of it. For example, I don't mind submitting to metal detectors or scanners at the airport if it means that hijackers can't board the planes with weapons. The same is true with gun control. I'm willing to tolerate "some" gun control if it actually has some effective good. Take for example that dumb waiting period we had when they introduced the Brady bill. That waiting period did NO GOOD at all. I see no benefit came from it whatsoever. So that is a type of gun control I could not support. On the other hand, I would not be against some kind of ID card, sort of like a CHL only just for the purpose of buying guns. It would require a background check and perhaps even some very minor safety course certification. Once the card is obtained, when buying a gun you could simply present the card and they could call a number to check it was still valid. That would also greatly help when people sell guns privately. If you were selling a gun to another citizen you could ask for their card and call the number to verify it was still good. That way you'd know you weren't selling to a felon. But, I wouldn't be in favor of the government actually tracking the purchases made with the card.
    I'm speechless.
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    For those of you who think we should have no gun control whatsoever, I ask that you re-examine your thinking. Should we also have no control over "controlled substances?" Should we not bother to license people to drive cars, or check people before they get on an airplane? Should we just sell machine guns in the toy department at Wal-Mart so that 6 year olds can buy them and go "look what I bought with my allowance, Mommy!" Wake up guys, we always have to sacrifice a little bit of freedom to solve certain problems.

    As for Obama. yes, I'm aware of his previous statements regarding gun control when he was a senator. No, I don't like them. However, judging by his actions and not his words, I'd say he hasn't done much of anything regarding gun control. There are a lot of things Obama talked about before getting elected and many of those things have not come to pass. Much of it I believe is simply the same thing that every president encounters upon being elected. Some things aren't as easy to change as they thought it would be.

    You know, I've only lived long enough to remember presidents back to Reagan. But it doesn't matter who has been in office there have always been people who hated the guy and thought he was an idiot. Guess what, if you ever get elected president there will be tons of people who hate you and think you are an idiot, a criminal, need to be impeached, etc. It all comes with the job. I give each and every president respect because I know it is a hard job. If I don't agree with a particular policy, I will state that I do not agree with it. I will also say whether or not I voted for him. (And no, I didn't vote for Obama) But if he came over to my house for dinner, I would treat him with respect.

    I hate to be the one to play devil's advocate. But I'm pretty sure this forum represents one specific side to the gun-control debate. And believe me, we're all on the same side. If we had a bunch of anti-gun liberals come in here talking about their ideas of gun control, it would be obvious who's side I'm on. (and it wouldn't be theirs)
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    For those of you who think we should have no gun control whatsoever, I ask that you re-examine your thinking. Should we also have no control over "controlled substances?" Should we not bother to license people to drive cars, or check people before they get on an airplane? Should we just sell machine guns in the toy department at Wal-Mart so that 6 year olds can buy them and go "look what I bought with my allowance, Mommy!" Wake up guys, we always have to sacrifice a little bit of freedom to solve certain problems.

    As for Obama. yes, I'm aware of his previous statements regarding gun control when he was a senator. No, I don't like them. However, judging by his actions and not his words, I'd say he hasn't done much of anything regarding gun control. There are a lot of things Obama talked about before getting elected and many of those things have not come to pass. Much of it I believe is simply the same thing that every president encounters upon being elected. Some things aren't as easy to change as they thought it would be.

    You know, I've only lived long enough to remember presidents back to Reagan. But it doesn't matter who has been in office there have always been people who hated the guy and thought he was an idiot. Guess what, if you ever get elected president there will be tons of people who hate you and think you are an idiot, a criminal, need to be impeached, etc. It all comes with the job. I give each and every president respect because I know it is a hard job. If I don't agree with a particular policy, I will state that I do not agree with it. I will also say whether or not I voted for him. (And no, I didn't vote for Obama) But if he came over to my house for dinner, I would treat him with respect.
    Well, I don't have much going on today so I might as waddle into this mess. You are right that what politicians say and what they actually do are two different things. It's no secret that Obama, like many Chicago politicians, likes strict gun laws....really strict....like, you can't have one strict. He's also got more on his plate than he can handle already and gun control of any type is way back on his "to do" list. I think the only gun control legislation that he's actually signed allowed guns to be carried into national parks. I could be wrong, but that's the only legislation that I recall. He made some kind of ignorant statement when he was campaigning about southerners clinging to their Bibles and guns, or something like that, and a lot of southerners and gunowners (usually being the same people) have not forgotten the remark. Southerners tend to have long memories (as you well know). Hell, some of us aren't over the surrender at Appomattox yet. Still, if he and Michelle decided to stop by the cabin for some 'possum and turnip greens, I'd be respectful.

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    For those of you who think we should have no gun control whatsoever, I ask that you re-examine your thinking. Should we also have no control over "controlled substances?" Should we not bother to license people to drive cars, or check people before they get on an airplane? Should we just sell machine guns in the toy department at Wal-Mart so that 6 year olds can buy them and go "look what I bought with my allowance, Mommy!" Wake up guys, we always have to sacrifice a little bit of freedom to solve certain problems.
    I agree in that some basic form of gun control needs to be in place to keep things in check, but comparing legal gun ownership with illegal drugs, driving without a license and allowing 6 year olds to buy machine guns at Walmart is not a good comparison or rational. The purchase of firearms is legal and protected under the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution, whereas buying drugs and driving without a license are illegal under law. Also, it is common sense that kids should not be allowed to purchase or handle guns until they are of a certain age and/or under parental supervision so this is nonsense. The issue at hand is that the Anti-Gun movement is always correlating crime, firearms smuggling, gun violence, massacres, the drug cartels and murder with legal gun ownership by civilians, when in fact this has more to do with the firearms' black market. The Gun Control movement is not looking to "control guns to keep things in check", they wish to ban the ownership of guns by civilians completely and this is a clear violation of the Constitution of the United States. They may not come out and say it in the open at a press conference or put it in writing, but they try to pass little laws one by one such as magazine capacity restrictions, purchase requirements (background checks, gun registry, psychological tests, fingerprints, etc.), they start taxing the purchase and manufacture of guns and ammo, caliber restrictions, semi-automatic firearms restrictions, banning foreign imports and so forth. Little by little they will take the people's right to bear arms and then all of a sudden, buying firearms will not be easy for the people because it is either too restrictive or too expensive. Therefore, I think that Americans should not budge an inch to the Gun Control Movement, because Gun Control has nothing to do with Guns and has a lot to do with CONTROL.
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  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array alachner's Avatar
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    Let me give you all a good real life example of how Gun Control is useless.

    In my home country of Costa Rica, the purchase of firearms and ammo is HEAVILY taxed (For example: Glocks sells for $1,200, AR-15's for $4,000 and a box of 25 bullets of JHP sells for $80.00), we must pass a firearms handling exam (written and shooting test) in order to register or get a concealed carry permit, we must undergo a psychological exam, submit our fingerprints to the OIJ (Costa Rica's FBI), undergo a criminal background check, provide a written notarized document stating the intended purpose for the firearm (self-defense, sport or collection), we are only allowed to register 3 guns for concealed carry, concealed carry permits must be renewed every two years, we have magazine restrictions for semi-automatic rifles and handguns and all guns must be registered at a national registry. Add to this the fact that doing all these requirements costs anywhere from $200 - $300 and that you have to stand in line for over 3 hours to get everything approved, and what you have is a nightmare for legal gun ownership. So what is the result of all these requirements and restrictions? Absolutely nothing!

    Of all the crimes committed in the streets involving firearms, 99.9% involve illegal firearms purchased in the black market and in hands of criminals, gangs and drug cartels. The most common firearm used in gun violence in Costa Rica is the Automatic AK-47 rifle which is illegal for civilians to buy and not sold in any gun shop. The firearms' restriction initiated approximately 12 years ago and so it happens, that at the same time the crime rate has been increasing as well ever since. Coincidence? I don't think so. The incidents of a concealed carry permit holder committing a crime is extremely rare and probably there have been 5 cases in the last 20 years.

    So why does the Government insist in Gun Control? Because this makes the overall population feel that the government is doing something to control crime, when in fact they are achieving exactly the opposite. In order to control crime, the Government of Costa Rica needs to better equip and train the Police, toughen the criminal and immigration laws, build more prisons and cooperate with the US Navy and Coast Guard to combat drug trafficking. Obviously, this cannot be achieved quickly or easily, so politicians usually go for the easy way of banning firearms in the hands of civilians to provide a "false sense" of security and gain more votes.

    In the United States, the people have been blessed by their Founding Fathers that included the Right to Bear Arms in the Constitution and this is a major force to fight against the Gun Control Movement. Don't allow yourself to be fooled and don't budge an inch to the Government's lies!
    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous... If I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for?" [Clint Smith - Thunder Ranch]

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alachner View Post
    Of all the crimes committed in the streets involving firearms, 99.9% involve illegal firearms purchased in the black market and in hands of criminals, gangs and drug cartels. The most common firearm used in gun violence in Costa Rica is the Automatic AK-47 rifle which is illegal for civilians to buy and not sold in any gun shop. The firearms' restriction initiated approximately 12 years ago and so it happens, that at the same time the crime rate has been increasing as well ever since. Coincidence? I don't think so. The incidents of a concealed carry permit holder committing a crime is extremely rare and probably there have been 5 cases in the last 20 years.
    You're preaching to the choir. And yes, Costa Rica sounds restrictive, but then compare it to the U.K. or Germany and you'll get a different perspective on the matter. I actually wanted to move to Germany (hence my avatar photo) at one point, but the terrible gun control was one of the reasons I decided not to.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I am on the far right side of this thing. I believe all guns should be unrestricted. The law abiding citizen should have the same rights as criminals.

    You want Utopia? The answer is simple to me. Form posses of civillian volunteers to patrol the borders, with clear rules of engagement. Hunt down criminals like dogs and hang them for all to see, on a regular basis. Let the children watch so they can get it clear early on what side they don't want to be on.
    Make it mandatory for all homes to have firearms, and carry legal anywhere anytime.
    I would even go so far as to say a homeowner should be fined if they let a burglar escape without putting some lead in their arse.

    Tell the United Nations to go to hell, because we are a United Nation.
    I'll bet ya it won't take long for this country to get strong and proud again if we did that.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    For those of you who think we should have no gun control whatsoever, I ask that you re-examine your thinking. Should we also have no control over "controlled substances?"
    Not protected in the constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Should we not bother to license people to drive cars,
    Not protected in the constitution. Infact this is a privilege not a right

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    or check people before they get on an airplane?
    Not protected in the constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Should we just sell machine guns in the toy department at Wal-Mart so that 6 year olds can buy them and go "look what I bought with my allowance, Mommy!" Wake up guys, we always have to sacrifice a little bit of freedom to solve certain problems.
    YES WE SHOULD!!!!!!That actually would be nice and fairly convient! This would drive prices down and M16's would be in the 300-400 range. But in all seriousness, IIRC....since 1934 there has only been one murder committed with a registered machine, the individual who committed this act was actually a sworn police officer.

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    As for Obama. yes, I'm aware of his previous statements regarding gun control when he was a senator. No, I don't like them. However, judging by his actions and not his words, I'd say he hasn't done much of anything regarding gun control. There are a lot of things Obama talked about before getting elected and many of those things have not come to pass. Much of it I believe is simply the same thing that every president encounters upon being elected. Some things aren't as easy to change as they thought it would be.
    Just because he hasn't yet doesn't mean he won't in the future. Obama is a politician, and a politicians job is to get re-elected for a second term. Obama's ratings are in the in crapper right now and he probably knows that most Americans are unhappy with him. So stirring up America with Gun control may kill his chances at a second term. Now he gets re-elected to a second term, I would bet you in 2013 we will see a resurruction of the AWB Ban, and other terrible gun legislation.

    PS Actions do speak louder than words. HOw about the two gun lovers he put on the Supreme Court OO yeah they were really on our side in the most resent SCOTUS Cases.
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Well, here I'm not sure I can agree. Haven't you read this whole scandal the ATF has been dealing with where they allowed hundreds of guns to be sold to drug lords? Where did these sales happen? At local gun stores.



    While I'll agree that there are anti-gunners out there who have a stated goal of banning all weapons by introducing one piece of gun control at a time, I think those particular people are in the minority. As long as we stand up for our rights we will never allow them to go that far. I am willing to have a slight inconvenience as long as that means there is some effective good come out of it. For example, I don't mind submitting to metal detectors or scanners at the airport if it means that hijackers can't board the planes with weapons. The same is true with gun control. I'm willing to tolerate "some" gun control if it actually has some effective good. Take for example that dumb waiting period we had when they introduced the Brady bill. That waiting period did NO GOOD at all. I see no benefit came from it whatsoever. So that is a type of gun control I could not support. On the other hand, I would not be against some kind of ID card, sort of like a CHL only just for the purpose of buying guns. It would require a background check and perhaps even some very minor safety course certification. Once the card is obtained, when buying a gun you could simply present the card and they could call a number to check it was still valid. That would also greatly help when people sell guns privately. If you were selling a gun to another citizen you could ask for their card and call the number to verify it was still good. That way you'd know you weren't selling to a felon. But, I wouldn't be in favor of the government actually tracking the purchases made with the card.
    Obviously you have little to no understanding of what REALLY happened. Those guns were sold ILLEGALLY, and the operation was authorized by none other than our own wonderful BATFE. That op was specifically designed to make people think like you just did. It increased violence along the border and resulted in gun control measures that bypassed Congress. Yet if the BATFE hadn't forced gun stores to break the law, those measures would have seemed pointless, wouldn't they? You need to do some research and take anything said by the BATFE with a grain of salt. They've proven themselves to be liars time and time again.

    And you support gun owner licensing. That's a very serious measure of gun control that almost every gun owner is against. People that think like this are the problem among gun owners. We need to realize that our rights are being taken away little by little, and do something about it. If we allow them an inch, they'll take a mile every time. It HAS to stop before we lose the 2A all together.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I am on the far right side of this thing. I believe all guns should be unrestricted. The law abiding citizen should have the same rights as criminals.

    You want Utopia? The answer is simple to me. Form posses of civillian volunteers to patrol the borders, with clear rules of engagement. Hunt down criminals like dogs and hang them for all to see, on a regular basis. Let the children watch so they can get it clear early on what side they don't want to be on.
    Make it mandatory for all homes to have firearms, and carry legal anywhere anytime.
    I would even go so far as to say a homeowner should be fined if they let a burglar escape without putting some lead in their arse.

    Tell the United Nations to go to hell, because we are a United Nation.
    I'll bet ya it won't take long for this country to get strong and proud again if we did that.
    Adric, see above, and go forth...Gman hit the nail on the head. Get out of my bedroom, get out of my wallet, and leave my guns the hell alone...
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  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Just a little HISTORY of gun control...for those too young to remember

    Gun History
    After reading the following historical facts, read the part
    about Switzerland

    twice.

    A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.. From 1929 to 1953,
    about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
    up and exterminated.

    ------------------------------

    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1..5 million
    Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated.

    ------------------------------

    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total
    of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
    rounded up and exterminated.

    ------------------------------
    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
    political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated

    ------------------------------

    Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000
    Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated..
    ------------------------------

    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
    Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated
    ------------------------------

    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million
    educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated.

    -----------------------------
    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
    because of gun control: 56 million.
    ------------------------------

    You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
    disseminating this information.

    Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
    gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens

    Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

    The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them
    of this history lesson.

    With guns, we are 'citizens.'
    Without them, we are 'subjects'.

    During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew
    most Americans were ARMED!


    The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in
    defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more
    important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is
    supplemental.
    SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
    SWITZERLAND 'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
    SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY
    CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
    IT'S A NO BRAINER!
    DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS
    IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

    I'm a firm believer of the 2nd Amendment! In it's entirety, and in it's very literal meaning.

    After our guns are gone, the Government can do ANYTHING to us and there is nothing we can do about it. As long as we have our guns we can correct any wrong, without them we are sheep.

    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
    Thomas Jefferson

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  13. #27
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    Here is a fact that is lost on many people.

    Law abiding people dont need just a whole bunch of laws to tell them how to act, because they will do the right thing.

    They'll do the right thing, because it is the right thing to do.

    LAWS do not prevent or hinder criminal behavior. They never have and they never will.

    Criminals do not obey the law. Passing a law, ANY law, to restrict the activities of a criminal never has worked and it never will...it will only restrict the law abiding.


    Lets look at some useless laws.

    Waiting periods. Good people have been killed because some stupid lawmakers didnt think of the consequences. A criminal does not buy guns through channels that required background checks, waiting periods or the stupid one gun a month program.

    Registration. Registration is for one purpose only. Confiscation. There is no other reason for it,contrary to popular beleif. For proof, one only has to study history.

    Background checks. They mean only that you had a clean history at one time. I could kill my wife this morning, and go buy a gun this afternoon.

    Liscensing. It is nothing other than a cash cow for states. There is no other purpose other than to put you on a list saying that you own guns.


    All the laws in the world wont do a dang thing. Its already illegal to kill someone but it hasnt prevented it from happening.

    Wishing more laws upon those that abide by the law in hopes of controlling criminals is simple minded and foolish.
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  14. #28
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    For those of you who think we should have no gun control whatsoever, I ask that you re-examine your thinking. Should we also have no control over "controlled substances?" Should we not bother to license people to drive cars, or check people before they get on an airplane? Should we just sell machine guns in the toy department at Wal-Mart so that 6 year olds can buy them and go "look what I bought with my allowance, Mommy!" Wake up guys, we always have to sacrifice a little bit of freedom to solve certain problems.
    Nope. Driving a car and using drugs are not constitutionally protected. Owning firearms is. Minors don't have full constitutional rights until the age of majority, 18, so that again is irrelevant. Way to present an anti-gunner's main argument, btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    As for Obama. yes, I'm aware of his previous statements regarding gun control when he was a senator. No, I don't like them. However, judging by his actions and not his words, I'd say he hasn't done much of anything regarding gun control. There are a lot of things Obama talked about before getting elected and many of those things have not come to pass. Much of it I believe is simply the same thing that every president encounters upon being elected. Some things aren't as easy to change as they thought it would be.
    Not just his statements, his actions. How many times did he vote for a bill to ban certain types of firearms or ammunition? More than enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    You know, I've only lived long enough to remember presidents back to Reagan. But it doesn't matter who has been in office there have always been people who hated the guy and thought he was an idiot. Guess what, if you ever get elected president there will be tons of people who hate you and think you are an idiot, a criminal, need to be impeached, etc. It all comes with the job. I give each and every president respect because I know it is a hard job. If I don't agree with a particular policy, I will state that I do not agree with it. I will also say whether or not I voted for him. (And no, I didn't vote for Obama) But if he came over to my house for dinner, I would treat him with respect.
    I'd tell him to go pound salt. He'd probably be more comfortable at my anti-gun neighbors house, instead of around all my evil black assault rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    I hate to be the one to play devil's advocate. But I'm pretty sure this forum represents one specific side to the gun-control debate. And believe me, we're all on the same side. If we had a bunch of anti-gun liberals come in here talking about their ideas of gun control, it would be obvious who's side I'm on. (and it wouldn't be theirs)
    Why? You've already presented several of their arguments? You support "Common Sense" gun control, and compare owning a gun to driving a car. You're too far on the wrong side of the line, friend.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    Obviously you have little to no understanding of what REALLY happened. Those guns were sold ILLEGALLY, and the operation was authorized by none other than our own wonderful BATFE. That op was specifically designed to make people think like you just did.
    Yes, I actually understand what happened. The people who ran the gun stores were told to sell huge quantities to these criminals by the ATF. But the point remains that the criminals were in the gun stores buying them.

    Yes, I know your typical gang-banger or street thug buys their guns on the black market or steals them from homeowners to sell on the black market. Why? because it is not easy for them to buy them in stores due to the gun control we already have. I believe that is a good thing. For example, if I turned criminal tomorrow and became a fugitive and I had to find a gun. I honestly don't know where I'd look for one, other than to start breaking into houses hoping to find one, and that would likely get me killed by a homeowner. But if we had no gun control I could just walk into a gun store and buy one.

    I like having the upper hand on criminals. Now, I know this will sound contrary to what we always talk about with gun-control, but hear me out. We all know that a lot of criminals have guns. Yes, stricter gun control will likely affect only honest citizens and not the criminals. But a certain level of gun control (like what we have now) does make it more difficult for criminals to obtain them. If we had no gun control at all, and guns were $10 a piece, every single crook would have one. As it is, only a small percentage of crooks have them, the rest of them have to commit crimes with knifes, baseballs bats, and other weapons which are less effective than guns.

    If you want to live in a country without gun control or a government, move to Samalia.

    I do personally like glockman10mm's idea on how to handle criminals. Unfortunately, the constitution also prevents us from doing that.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adric22 View Post
    Yes, I actually understand what happened. The people who ran the gun stores were told to sell huge quantities to these criminals by the ATF. But the point remains that the criminals were in the gun stores buying them.

    Yes, I know your typical gang-banger or street thug buys their guns on the black market or steals them from homeowners to sell on the black market. Why? because it is not easy for them to buy them in stores due to the gun control we already have. I believe that is a good thing. For example, if I turned criminal tomorrow and became a fugitive and I had to find a gun. I honestly don't know where I'd look for one, other than to start breaking into houses hoping to find one, and that would likely get me killed by a homeowner. But if we had no gun control I could just walk into a gun store and buy one.

    I like having the upper hand on criminals. Now, I know this will sound contrary to what we always talk about with gun-control, but hear me out. We all know that a lot of criminals have guns. Yes, stricter gun control will likely affect only honest citizens and not the criminals. But a certain level of gun control (like what we have now) does make it more difficult for criminals to obtain them. If we had no gun control at all, and guns were $10 a piece, every single crook would have one. As it is, only a small percentage of crooks have them, the rest of them have to commit crimes with knifes, baseballs bats, and other weapons which are less effective than guns.

    If you want to live in a country without gun control or a government, move to Samalia.

    I do personally like glockman10mm's idea on how to handle criminals. Unfortunately, the constitution also prevents us from doing that.
    I never said I didn't like the government. We NEED a government, but we don't need gun control. I've said it before and I'll say it again. You want to stop crime, put a gun in the hand of every law abiding citizen in the country and see how long it takes for the criminals to disappear. Then we wouldn't have to worry about them buying guns, would we? There would be NO benefit to being a criminal, which is how it should be.

    If you can't see how what you're suggesting is a bad idea, you seriously need to re-think gun ownership.

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