My letter to the St Pete Times today

This is a discussion on My letter to the St Pete Times today within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This column appeared in today's, August 5th 2011, edition of the St Pete Times: Gun lobby has no place in the exam room And my ...

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    My letter to the St Pete Times today

    This column appeared in today's, August 5th 2011, edition of the St Pete Times:

    Gun lobby has no place in the exam room

    And my email to the author:

    I read your column in todayís St Pete Times, and would like to offer some more perspective on the situation.

    I am a card-carrying member of the NRA, though not adamantly active in any of their political machinations and not one who attends any kind of meetings or other gatherings. I just believe the NRA is an organization that Iíd like to support.

    Iíve also worked in health care for just over 30 years now, in hospitals, large hospital systems including BayCare, and in the senior care industry. Iíve worked closely with doctors and have been a part of hospital administration. Iíve held various positions in the industry, including running hospital kitchens and overseeing data processing departments, as well as being very intimately knowledgeable of the insurance billing process. Iím very comfortable with my opinion that the real problem with health care in America is not the care, not the care providers, not the quality of care, but simply access to care. That access is controlled by the insurance industry.

    Doctorís are paid by the insurance industry.

    Any physician is going to tell you the side of the tale that the people that are paying them want you to hear. In this situation, the physicians are being paid by the insurance industry and the insurance providers are helping the doctors inform the public, to keep the NRA out of the picture, by telling the public that they donít want the NRA in the exam room.

    Unfortunately, the truth of this situation is the reverse of what weíre hearing from the physicians. The insurance industry wants this information, and will get it from the physicians Ė in fact, the doctorís cannot hold it back from the insurers. So by requiring physicians to ask questions about gun ownership, the insurance industry is conducting a strong-arm invasion of the privacy of the exam room, and telling the public that the NRA has no business in there, due to the same privacy that the insurance industry is invading.

    So the NRA is trying to protect the individuals privacy and their rights under the 2nd Amendment, by preventing doctors from asking questions that should have no place in the exam room; while the insurance industry is invading the individuals privacy and infringing on that individuals rights under the Constitution. The insurance industry is even managing to get the press to raise the banner of their breach of confidentiality.

    What we really have here is two large lobby driven special interest groups fighting each other, one of which has their agenda out in the open and on the table, the other hiding their agenda behind something as personal as a visit to the doctor.

    Iím sorry, but I do not support your position on this. I believe the NRA is trying to protect my right to privacy and my rights under the Constitution; Iím also keenly aware that the real breach of my privacy is coming from the insurance industry.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    It is a law for our side, but that doest mean its a good law. I do not think Doctors should be asking about guns, pools, bike helmets and so forth, but they do have the right to ask questions it is there practice after all. If the patient doesnt like it, then find a new doctor. We cant pick and choose parts of the constitution we like and dont like, we are either for it, or we our against it, its either all or nothing IMO.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    It is a law for our side, but that doest mean its a good law. I do not think Doctors should be asking about guns, pools, bike helmets and so forth, but they do have the right to ask questions it is there practice after all. If the patient doesnt like it, then find a new doctor. We cant pick and choose parts of the constitution we like and dont like, we are either for it, or we our against it, its either all or nothing IMO.
    Haven't we picked this one over already? Choice of medical providers is irrelevant when the entire machine is set against you. They have a license to practice medicine - did they cover guns in med school?

    Point in case:
    A legislative session that surely set a record for different ways to punk the people of this state brought us a new law that says a doctor or other health care worker may not ask a patient whether there are guns in the home unless the doctor has a "relevant" reason. (Next, the beef industry convinces legislators that doctors have some nerve asking how many weekly cheeseburgers you consume.)
    Medical Doctor + guns in the home = Irrelative

    Medical Doctor + your diet = Pertinance

    Ms. Carlton needs to go back to journalism school if this is the best she can do...
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    The only time a Doctor would need to know about firearm useage, not ownership, is if you have an injury that would be caused/exacerbated by firearm useage. Basically shoulder or wrist injuries. Well, hearing too, but we should be using some type of quality hearing protection most of the time anyways so that should not be an issue we are aggravating.

    Oh yeah, always bring your good ear protection to the range. One time when I was checking the zero on my deer hunting rifle a guy came in with a Gamo Whisper and little ear buds. Needless to say, my 7mm08 was far louder than his little ear buds could deafen. He was not prepared, and had to move away when I was shooting.

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    Here's my letter (and email to the author):

    Ms. Carlton:
    By means of more than one Internet forum in which I participate, your editorial “Gun lobby has no place in the doctor's office” in the on-line edition of today’s St. Petersburg Times came to my attention.

    Clearly, you take issue with what you refer to as “gag order” laws imposed on Florida doctors which prevent them from asking any questions about firearms ownership. But let me pose a parallel question: if a physician’s patient questionnaire asked about sexual practices and history (e.g., how many sexual partners the patient had, how many abortions she had, whether he/she engaged in unprotected sex, anal intercourse or homosexual sex), do you think that a similar hoopla would not have been raised by so-called women’s rights groups and other sexual freedom groups? If similar “gag orders” re questions of sexual history and practices were to become Florida law, would you be as incensed and prompted to write an editorial as you are about gun ownership “gag orders”? Would that raise your ire as well?

    We know unequivocally that the presence of an abortion in a woman’s life has a likelihood of over 99% of resulting in the death of a child, even though access to abortion is not specifically granted by our Constitution. In contrast, gun ownership (which IS protected by our Constitution) has a greater likelihood of preserving its owner’s life than harming it (over 200 millions guns in the US hurt no one today). Our tax-funded Centers for Disease Control tell us that five-gallon buckets kill more children (real children, not 19 year-olds) than firearms, and also that participation in homosexual sex acts or sex with multiple partners vastly increases risk of sexually-transmitted diseases and the attendant cost of related heath care. But a) do these question belong on a physician’s intake questionnaire, and b) are they anyone’s business but the patient’s?

    It is the presence of an intrusive question on doctors’ intake forms which resulted in the “gag order” that you find so offensive. It doesn’t take a stretch of the imagination to envision questions regarding sexual history and practices showing up on those forms as well, and none of these – short of a bleeding gunshot wound or an STD creating physical havoc – has any place in the doctors’ knowledge of a patient’s history. “Likelihood” is generally meaningless to a doctor until “reality” is at hand.

    How about striking a blow for reason. Let’s level the playing field and just prohibit the asking of intrusive personal questions on doctors’ intake forms.

    gasmitty
    Gilbert, AZ
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

  7. #6
    Member Array Ianator's Avatar
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    Both letters drive it home. IMO

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Good letter, good points... and right on the spot.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Sorry Bigmacque, St Peter IS a way to limp wrist At least they WILL get theirs Oct. 1st
    When they TRY to tell you where you can carry ; )
    H/D
    A Native Floridian = RARE


    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
    H/D

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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Not sure there's a political agenda?

    Has a doctor ever asked if you engage in homosexual activity?
    That's much more dangerous than owning a firearm, but it's a "protected" group.

    Of course there's an agenda.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkhmAsylm View Post
    Haven't we picked this one over already? Choice of medical providers is irrelevant when the entire machine is set against you. They have a license to practice medicine - did they cover guns in med school?

    Point in case:


    Medical Doctor + guns in the home = Irrelative

    Medical Doctor + your diet = Pertinance

    Ms. Carlton needs to go back to journalism school if this is the best she can do...
    Im not saying find a different insurance company, Im saying find a new doctor. I guess im not sure how florida works. In michigan if I do not like my doctor I find another, It really isnt that hard. Is florida different in that regard? Or are we just splitting hairs for the sake of debate.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Member Array Gforty's Avatar
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    Might not be so easy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Im not saying find a different insurance company, Im saying find a new doctor...
    Maybe it's different in FL, but the "intrusive forms" I've seen here in Ohio were NOT generated in the Dr.'s offices. I'd guess AMA or Insurance as the source. I doubt the individual MD will go to the trouble of developing his/her own form.

    Besides, a simple "No" in the appropriate blocks works for me...

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    Im not saying find a different insurance company, Im saying find a new doctor. I guess im not sure how florida works. In michigan if I do not like my doctor I find another, It really isnt that hard. Is florida different in that regard? Or are we just splitting hairs for the sake of debate.
    Not for the sake of debate, I'm just wondering if you are able to see my point?

    Medical providers - all of the doctors, nurses, & technicians accredited under a national organization - may be able to refuse providing you non-life threatening medical care for any reason they see fit. If all of those medical providers nationwide ascribe to the talking points meted out by their national organization & thusly refuse to service your medical needs, where do you turn?

    That's my take on the Florida law banning doctors from asking these types of non-medical questions.
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArkhmAsylm View Post
    Not for the sake of debate, I'm just wondering if you are able to see my point?

    Medical providers - all of the doctors, nurses, & technicians accredited under a national organization - may be able to refuse providing you non-life threatening medical care for any reason they see fit. If all of those medical providers nationwide ascribe to the talking points meted out by their national organization & thusly refuse to service your medical needs, where do you turn?

    That's my take on the Florida law banning doctors from asking these types of non-medical questions.
    I do see your point. We arent under the full obamacare just yet. Like I said before, im not sure about Florida. We need someone in FL to clear this up. In my state, If you do not like your doc, you find a new one. Under the new obamacare, we are going to have issues and both you and I understand that. That will be a sad day in america when it hits full force. At that point I fear you are right....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    I still think the real point is that the question simply does not belong there in the first place. The insurance companies want that question asked, then spin their intrusion by saying it's the NRA that's invading the exam room by keeping the question out.

    And ..... the damn liberal media is playing right into their hands, because most of them are too stupid to even be called sheep, they barely qualify as lemmings.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
    1 Thess. 5:16-18

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmacque View Post
    And ..... the damn liberal media is playing right into their hands, because most of them are too stupid to even be called sheep, they barely qualify as lemmings.
    Wish they WOULD act like lemmings and just jump off the cliffs, into the sea.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

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