How Far Are You Willing To Take It?

This is a discussion on How Far Are You Willing To Take It? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; With the current political / legislative climate in this country, the riots in (not so) Great Britain, and some riots stateside... its got me wondering... ...

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Thread: How Far Are You Willing To Take It?

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    Member Array OperatorJ's Avatar
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    How Far Are You Willing To Take It?

    With the current political / legislative climate in this country, the riots in (not so) Great Britain, and some riots stateside... its got me wondering... how far am I willing to go for my 2A rights? Is a policy at work that effectively says "Thou shalt not carry a legally owned weapon on these premises" constitutional? A sign on a store's window (which in TX makes it "illegal" to carry there IF it is the proper sign). How far would you be willing to go? I think the vast majority of people on this site would agree that this country has gotten off track, but how do we get it back on track? Obviously, the 2A is only a small part of that, but does it start with that? How important to you is your 2A right to keep and bear arms? I am not a constitutional scholar, but I've heard some people argue that it applies to the militia - the modern-day National Guard. The NG is a part of the military, why would the NG need an amendment to the constitution to keep and bear arms? Back then, the "militia" was a farmer with a pitch fork, who, when needed to protect himself, his family, or his property, used a firearm to do so. He was the militia. He was not uniformed. He had not taken any oath. He fought for what he believed in - his family, his property, and his country. So in 2011... how have we gotten so far from that? It must have been pretty important to be included as a right of the people in the first set of amendments.

    I digress... the current status of things has me very frustrated (with more than the restriction of 2A rights, but for the sake of keeping on topic with this forum, we'll stick to that discussion here). By allowing my company to restrict my right to keep and bear arms, am I part of the problem? How would/do you handle this?

    NOTE: Let me be VERY clear - I am NOT advocating any violent action or anything of that nature in this discussion. I am simply expressing some thoughts (1A) about my 2A rights, and how I see they have become so restricted to us. The federal, state, county, or city governments, place of employment, retail stores, malls, restaurants, etc etc etc have all attempted to restrict our right. So, what to do about it? Peacefully protest? Run for office? I open the discussion to your thoughts and comments.

    J

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    If a man pays you to do a job, you are obligated to follow his rules. That's common sense. Don't really see how you can argue that point. You take the money, you do his bidding, period.

    And, how constitutional is it to tell a property owner what they can and can't have on their property? Kinda the pot calling the kettle black ain't it?
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Member Array ConcealedG30's Avatar
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    I try to vote for those whom I believe are like minded. That being said, I don't know how much good that does with all the special interest groups. I love the fact that Rick Perry carries, and I'm sure there are an equal amount of people think its just horrific that he carries. Oh crap.... Were back at square one.
    Anticipation of Death is Worse Than Death Itself.
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    Member Array OperatorJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    If a man pays you to do a job, you are obligated to follow his rules. That's common sense. Don't really see how you can argue that point. You take the money, you do his bidding, period.
    Sure, I understand that, but that doesn't authorize the man to do whatever he wants. He is still subject to the constitution. We all are.

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OperatorJ View Post
    1. Sure, I understand that, but that doesn't authorize the man to do whatever he wants.
    2. He is still subject to the constitution.
    3. We all are.



    1. Oh yes it does. Within the limits of #2.
    2. Read it. Then, show me the restrictions to what I can/cannot do on my own private property.
    3. Yes we are.
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
    "You are elected to service, not power.
    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
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    Member Array OperatorJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    [/LIST]


    1. Oh yes it does. Within the limits of #2.
    2. Read it. Then, show me the restrictions to what I can/cannot do on my own private property.
    3. Yes we are.
    Ok, so we are in agreement then. If the Constitution says I can keep and bear arms and that right shall not be infringed, how can he, or anyone else, restrict that right?

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    If the constitution doesn't work for all, including property owners, the 2nd Amend is worthless.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OperatorJ View Post
    Sure, I understand that, but that doesn't authorize the man to do whatever he wants. He is still subject to the constitution. We all are.
    One's choice of employment is optional. One chooses to do something in exchange for something else. The employee can still legally choose to carry, and the employer can legally choose to fire the employee for doing so. They are not taking away the employee's constitutional freedoms, they are excercising theirs by dumping an undesired employee.

    The same goes for a small business owner. I takes all the chances, and I calls all the dances. Owning one's own business sucks in many ways, but it also provides for freedoms such as being able to bounce anyone out of my office for any reason that I choose to. If I'm too much of a tyrant, I'll go out of business. Problem solved.
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    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    I would certainly be willing to take part in a peaceful protest of 2A enthusiasts.
    "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato

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    Member Array OperatorJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    One's choice of employment is optional. One chooses to do something in exchange for something else. The employee can still legally choose to carry, and the employer can legally choose to fire the employee for doing so. They are not taking away the employee's constitutional freedoms, they are excercising theirs by dumping an undesired employee.

    The same goes for a small business owner. I takes all the chances, and I calls all the dances. Owning one's own business sucks in many ways, but it also provides for freedoms such as being able to bounce anyone out of my office for any reason that I choose to. If I'm too much of a tyrant, I'll go out of business. Problem solved.
    Agreed. But if a "rule" of the company is unconstitutional, it is void. Several court cases have proven this. So if they fire the employee for exercising their 2A right, wouldn't that be grounds for a lawsuit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OperatorJ View Post
    Agreed. But if a "rule" of the company is unconstitutional, it is void. Several court cases have proven this. So if they fire the employee for exercising their 2A right, wouldn't that be grounds for a lawsuit?
    Anything can be grounds for a lawsuit. I've yet to see a lawyer turn down a paycheck.

    There's plenty of case law to answer your question. 'Nothing really to be debated.

    I appreciate your desire to exercise freedoms, but it is important to remember that your freedoms should not come at the expense of other's freedoms. Carry on.
    limatunes likes this.
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    OperatorJ, while your enthusiasm is good and appreciated, you really need a crash course in constitutional law. You are way off the mark.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OperatorJ View Post
    Ok, so we are in agreement then. If the Constitution says I can keep and bear arms and that right shall not be infringed, how can he, or anyone else, restrict that right?
    Nice try... Maybe you've read it but apparently don't grasp its intent.

    Generally speaking: The intent of the Constitution is to limit the rights/actions of the federal government primarily,the state and local governments secondarily, and to increase the rights guaranteed to the people.

    But for the most part, interactions between people are covered by civil law.

    The government shall not infringe on your right... On my property, you can do what I want you to do, or you can leave. And you will not infringe on my right to use whatever force necessary to assure you leave of your own volition, or on a gurney.

    In most cases you are an "at will" employee anyway... The employer can let you go because he doesn't like the cut of your jib, the way you pick your nose, or the color of shoes you wear. Some of which might be considered 1st amendment rights of free speech.

    You also have no reasonable expectation of privacy on company property. If they provide you a locker, a desk, they can search it at any time... In most cases they could require that your lunch box or purse be searched on entry and exit.
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
    "You are elected to service, not power.
    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
    Me, 9/11/13

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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Ok, so we are in agreement then. If the Constitution says I can keep and bear arms and that right shall not be infringed, how can he, or anyone else, restrict that right?
    He or anyone else would not be restricting your right to bear arms as you can terminate the employment and exit the premesis at any time. You are not held there against your will. If you choose to stay you are volunteering to respect his right to manage his own property or place of employment as he chooses. If you are unwilling to do that you can make your exit and bear arms to your heart's content and everyone's rights remain intact.

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OperatorJ View Post
    Ok, so we are in agreement then. If the Constitution says I can keep and bear arms and that right shall not be infringed, how can he, or anyone else, restrict that right?
    The Constitution was written to limit the power of the Federal government. As such it protects you from that government. It does not protect you from your neighbor.
    This applies to more than just your rights to bear arms. If I do not kile what you are saying or doing when you are on my property I can ask you to leave and the government will assist me if necessary. You have no free speech on my property.
    If I decided to use your property as a stage to voice my political views to the traffic driving by does my free speech rights trump your property rights?
    Again, the Constitution was meant to restrict the federal government not the citizens.

    Michael

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