There is no Reciprocity

There is no Reciprocity

This is a discussion on There is no Reciprocity within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I was at the required class this last weekend for my CCW in CA at the Sheriffs training center and during the class the officer ...

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    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    There is no Reciprocity

    I was at the required class this last weekend for my CCW in CA at the Sheriffs training center and during the class the officer asked how many people had their Utah and Fla concealed licenses. He explained that reciprocity is an annual thing that must be signed by each each states Governor each year. As such he said it is generally not in effect, sighting that there were really only 2 states in which actual reciprocity was always on the books. Not sure about this but I see a lot of sigs with multiple state licenses so I thought I would bring it up.

    Being somewhat light about it he said "I hope one of you gets into a situation in one of those states so that we have case law on it"

    Found it interesting that according to the officer, perception is not always reality. It was made to seem as if it is more of a money making scheme.

    Thoughts?

    BigJon


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    I think he is mostly mistaken. He might be correct for a few specific interstate arrangements, but he is not generally correct.
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    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Interesting subject matter in that, to my knowledge, California has reciprocity with no other state.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    Could you explain what you know hopyard?

    Guantes, we most defnintely do not, but there are states or agencies that offer other permits, utah and fla I believe in that they have it reciprocity in other states. I assume the use is having their reciprocity when you travel to other states either that dont recognize ca permits.

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    Ex Member Array apvbguy's Avatar
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    there is a lot of bad info dispensed at those classes
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    He explained that reciprocity is an annual thing that must be signed by each each states Governor each year
    That is probably correct for the state of California. It is not correct for most other states.

    Contrary to the popular belief of Californians, there is more to the USA than California.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Generally, reciprocity stands unless the agreement changes--an annual approval is too burdensome. Me thinks the instructor was speaking out of school...unless he can cite the law/state code which requires reciprocity agreements to be reviewed annually...
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    To my knowledge, once reciprocity is established, it remains in effect until 1 or both parties revoke it.
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    Technically reciprocity is when both states honor each others permits, i.e. it goes both ways. So in that respect he may be somewhat correct, although I don't buy it having to be signed every year. Now there are plenty of states that will honor other states permits without a reciprocal agreement - i.e. Texas honors NY, NY honors no one.

    But it goes without saying that you should check with each individual state before travelling and if possible print out any official documentation and keep it handy.
    "I got a lot of problems with you people!" - Frank Costanza

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon10125 View Post
    Could you explain what you know hopyard?

    Guantes, we most defnintely do not, but there are states or agencies that offer other permits, utah and fla I believe in that they have it reciprocity in other states. I assume the use is having their reciprocity when you travel to other states either that dont recognize ca permits.
    I think others have pretty much dealt with this. Reciprocity happens when two states sign an agreement. Usually, that is signed by the Secretary of State but sometimes by a Governor. Unless the agreement specifies annual renewal, or specifies some terms that each state must adhere to, once signed the agreement remains in place.

    Some states honor permits from other states which do not reciprocate that honor. For example, TX specifically honors the Washington State license, but Washington (last I bothered to check) would not reciprocate or honor a TX license. The letter the governor signed didn't stipulate a one year period.

    All of this is entirely too complicated a mishmash of ever changing gotyas, and we desperately need a national reciprocity / nation honor law. For reasons of politics and political opinion, many oppose this idea even though they are staunch gun folks. IMO those who oppose national reciprocity/honor harm us all more than they protect our constitution.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    IMO those who oppose national reciprocity/honor harm us all more than they protect our constitution.
    Personally, I dont trust the Federal Government to be able to pour piss out of a boot without splashing it all over the place,which would then require the EPA to classify it as a hazardous waste area,which would require OSHA to oversee the cleanup effort, FEMA bringing in a trailer to make sure that they can get their input in so that they can justify their existance, and then the boot would have to be transported to a hazard waste facility furnace for disposal with guidance from the DOT for proper clearances to transport it, while being taxed by the IRS as a consumable.

    Nah. I dont want an incompetent anti-American or any appointed Czars telling me when and where I can or cannot defend myself.

    It could be dealt with very simply, such as the state of Missouri that recognizes ANY permit. Lets keep it at the state level.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns
    It could be dealt with very simply, such as the state of Missouri that recognizes ANY permit. Lets keep it at the state level.
    Idaho is the same.
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    We'll wait for eternity if we think the numerous states are going to to do what MO has done. Of course that is the ideal answer. But it won't happen. So rather than wish for the ideal "perfect" answer, let's get something that is workable. What we have now doesn't work unless you are covered by LEOSA.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Ex Member Array rgbiker's Avatar
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    Likewise Arizona recognizes ALL out of state CCW permits.

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    So rather than wish for the ideal "perfect" answer, let's get something that is workable
    Social Security started out life as being workable. Years later, by the time I retire, I'll be lucky if its still there.

    Lets say that the Feds start a workable interstate concealed handgun carry plan...sounds good. Years later, some pork barrelling politician gets shot...and Congress knee jerks and does something small to limit that law that says its OK to carry a handgun from state to state. Then, some jerk goes on a rampage and kills a few dozen people. All of a sudden some liberalazis start squalling like mashed cats and enact more laws that further erode that right.

    Thus...history repeats itself.

    No thanks. I'd rather not.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
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