Chance that national right to carry legislation will pass
This is a discussion on Chance that national right to carry legislation will pass within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I certainly wouldn't think moving the carry permit to a national system would be a good thing. (That may not even be what the bill ...
September 10th, 2011 11:00 AM
I certainly wouldn't think moving the carry permit to a national system would be a good thing. (That may not even be what the bill is talking about, I haven't read it) but I think it is great that states can try different combinations of laws and the rest of the country and look and see what effect those laws had and then decide whether they might want to try the same law in their own area. The other thing I dislike about a federal system is that what the fed giveth, the fed can taketh away.
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." -Plato
September 10th, 2011 11:00 AM
September 10th, 2011 11:08 AM
It is not what it is about. The bill, in a nutshell, would simply require all states that issue permits for carry to honour such permits from all other states - under the laws of the state that is being carried in.
Originally Posted by adric22
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"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.
September 10th, 2011 11:16 AM
The States need to agree to honor other States CCW permits the same way they honor other States driver's licenses. This would keep the Feds out of it altogether.
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September 10th, 2011 11:18 AM
As much as I think it would be a great concept......too many variables and strong convictions will kill it off
"A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington
September 11th, 2011 02:52 PM
As I said before.
No way in hell would I support a bill with this intent no matter how friendly and good it would seem. The second a State loses its sovereign ability to govern it's own affairs then freedom as we know it is completely vaporized.
If anyone here actually understood the Constitution, and many of you do, then you would understand that we are basically a "Union" of 50 independent governing bodies, heck you could even say countries in a sense, who are bound by a blood pact formed by our states earliest founders called the Constitution of the United States. This Constitution was a document specifically written and agreed upon to offer full protection for it's citizens from an bloated power corrupted central democratic government.
What I am saying is do not for once believe that a bill based on principles of democracy are going to offer you more freedom. I fear regardless of good intention, it will have unintended consequence or even by design replace your liberty with more centralized democracy based government control.
Our union is not democratic, we are a republic and I ask that all of us here please stop and think about what is being sold by your central government every time they offer you something. Because almost everything they offer is covered in gold but at its core is poisonous lead filled toxic anti-liberty agenda.
As it remains for now the states hold an AMAZING amount of Constitutional Power which absolutely trumps everything the Federal government can do, except what is afforded the Fed via that same document. But we are handing over power to the central government at an amazing pace because people truly know nothing of their founding principles. Also the Constitution is a LAW, and anyone who knowingly violates this most precious life giving legislation are guilty in my opinion and should be dealt with like any other crime.
"I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan
September 11th, 2011 04:10 PM
It's close to election time so anything can happen. I live in Pa. And work in NJ and sail in Md. So it would be great if I could carry in the other states that are ridiculous with over restricting laws. As I stated in previous posts it would be no different than your drivers license so it's a good thing. YOU will still have your STATE permit so you worry warts do not have to worry about the Feds canceling your permit. It is a win win. You will have to learn the regulations of other states that you visit. It has 242 cosponsors and only needs 214 votes in the house to pass then it will need 51in congress and a presidents signature. With millions of votes at stake the president will have to sign I would think. Keep your fingers crossed. This is no different than the Federal bill that was passed to forced your drivers license to be accepted in other states except it was done with the commerce committee instead of the homeland security committee.
September 14th, 2011 03:19 PM
I can't see where I'd gain any advantage in carrying with this bill.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
September 14th, 2011 03:36 PM
I'm an NRA life member, so I have to say this with my tongue in my cheek....but don't just listen to the NRA only on this.
Originally Posted by ramblinman
It is wise to also listen to GOA and JPFO. Sometimes the NRA doesn't take the "hard line" stand that many of us gun owners would like to see.
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
September 15th, 2011 08:46 PM
What does everyone think about this email I got regarding that bill:
Some well-meaning, but in my opinion very misguided pro-gunners are working to pass a bill that could turn into a Trojan Horse for more gun control.
Of course, I'm talking about H.R. 822, the so-called "National Reciprocity Act," which could open the flood gates of gun control.
I'm calling it the National CCW Registration Act.
While the idea that all states should recognize a concealed weapons permit is sound public policy, the use of the anti-gun federal bureaucracy to implement it is simply foolish.
Once the Federal Government is in the business of setting the standards for concealed carry permits, it's only a matter of time before they start using that power to restrict our rights.
Now you may hear arguments that this bill doesn't do that, and maybe that's true ... for now.
Even worse, once this bill starts moving, anyone can amend the bill with anything ... and no legislation can bind a future Congress in any way. And that doesn't count what Obamacrats in the Department of Justice might dream up as the "regulations" to carry out the legislative "intent."
I know many of you are frustrated that you can carry in some states but not others -- I'm frustrated, too.
I carry concealed every day, everywhere I go, and have worked to expand the ability of citizens to carry in dozens of states.
I believe I should be able to carry concealed -- without a permit -- in all 50 states. That's what "bear arms" means. Believe me, that's a long-term policy goal for the National Association for Gun Rights.
But mark my words, H.R. 822, the National CCW Registration Act, will become nothing more than a Trojan Horse for even more federal gun control.
I understand that many who support this bill sincerely just want their right to carry respected -- but cannot due to the fact that their state or another won't do the right thing.
But the devil is truly in the details... and the details are where H.R. 822 gets sticky.
This bill isn't just about the right to carry for self defense -- it's a battle over the role of government and the ability to restrict our Second Amendment rights.
Once gun owners let the Obamacrats start mandating whether states recognize permit reciprocity, they will want to mandate what it takes to get and keep those permits.
We're talking about:
More onerous standards to acquire a permit, so that only FBI agents can pass muster (look at New York's permit system);
More training requirements;
A demonstration of "Need" for a permit;
More frequent renewal periods;
Federally-mandated waiting periods;
A national database of all permit holders, accessible by Attorney General Eric Holder;
An extensive, federally-created list of Criminal Safezones, where only criminals will carry and where law-abiding gun owners are vulnerable;
The list of potential problems is endless.
Not to mention this legislation would shred the Constitutional Carry provisions that are on the books in Arizona, Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming.
It doesn't stop with just concealed carry. They'll co-opt the bill to expand the national Brady Registration Check system to block military veterans with PTSD or individuals with misdemeanor convictions from even OWNING firearms -- much less use them for self defense.
I don't believe the intentions of the bill sponsors are intrinsically bad -- they're just naive and misguided.
Many statists in Washington will co-opt H.R. 822 as part of their grab for more federal power and less individual liberty.
Even now, the statists in Congress are trying to adopt a National ID card, complete with biometric data that they've forced the states to conform to their mandated drivers license "standards." The National Association for Gun Rights has been part of a group of liberty-minded organizations that have passed state legislation forbidding cooperation with the federal National ID.
While many in the institutional gun control lobby will tell you this is a step forward for CCW permit holders, make no mistake, the National CCW Registration Act is a misguided attempt to protect our rights.
It's like asking the fox to guard the hen house.
They will use this bill as the foundation to create a federal database of CCW permit holders. And then they can link it everywhere the Feds have database connections -- state police, doctors and insurance companies under Obamacare, and Medicaid/Medicare.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to entrust my liberty and privacy to a "trust us, they won't do that "approach to dealing with Obama, the gun-grabbers or frankly most politicians of either party in Washington.
September 15th, 2011 11:57 PM
So what about your Drivers License? I am sure you would hate to not be able to drive in all 50 states right? yet you dont want a CWP being the same way?
Originally Posted by tangoseal
I am all for this BILL, and think it is our 2nd Admendment right to be able to carry in all 50 states! Fed or No fed...I will stick with the Constitution and Bill of rights...we should not need this bill, but I would love to see it pass..
No offense, but this whole State vs Federal thing is retarded.... A State has the right on certain things as long as it doesnt go against the Constitution, so the way states have the CWP,CHL, however you want to say it, right now is Unconstitutional, and this bill is how it should be...
So a state really shouldnt be able to say whether you can or cannot carry, since technically it goes against the COnstitution, and I do not care what a elected supreme ourt group of judges says about it... sorry
September 16th, 2011 12:03 AM
How many of these threads on the same subject we going to have ??? This has to be about the 5th one going.
Don't forget the unknown factor, the NRA is lobbying for passage of this rather hard.
Personally, I hope it fades into the sunset and dies in committee.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
September 16th, 2011 01:22 AM
GOA is mucking things up here in Iowa. The Iowa Firearms Coalition has worked very hard over the last, what, seven or so years to establish a neighborly and trustworthy relationship with the Iowa legislature on both sides of the isle.
Originally Posted by Stubborn
The un-conversational, in your face, bitchy, hard line stance of the GOA has endangered our cause.
I had never heard of the JPFO. Thanks for the link, Stubborn.
Last edited by Doghandler; September 16th, 2011 at 01:24 AM.
There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
September 17th, 2011 04:20 AM
I would back the GOA, long before I back the NRA
Originally Posted by Doghandler
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September 17th, 2011 05:03 AM
I've got a better chance of being elected Pope than this bill has of becoming law. And I'm not Catholic.
Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.
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