House Weighs Bill to Make Gun Permits Valid Across State Lines

This is a discussion on House Weighs Bill to Make Gun Permits Valid Across State Lines within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by azchevy I was going to respond to that. Bottom line is the feds want control because they can red tape the states ...

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Thread: House Weighs Bill to Make Gun Permits Valid Across State Lines

  1. #121
    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I was going to respond to that. Bottom line is the feds want control because they can red tape the states into giving control of not only the database and the process to them, then they can raise the fees, control who gets what, and effectively regulate it right out of existence is they so want to. They can and will screw this up with over regulation and ridiculousness. As they do with everything else. Have the states give up control only to abolish it completely under the reasonable restrictions loophole heller left us. People think I am crazy for saying this and that it will never happen..... but I think it can and will. Keep the feds out of it.
    I agree 100% This needs to be kept at a state level. There is absolutely all bad and no good that can come from the Fed getting involved.
    If you think your State wouldn't allow what "azchevy" described, to take place, you need to wake up and smell the coffee. It is easy to imagine if you're old enough to remember how the Fed's blackmailed the states into the 55mph speed limit back in 1974, by threatening to cut off all federal highway funds if they didn't comply.

    Originally Posted by phreddy
    LaPierre said Obama's base is in favor, not Obama. There is a big difference.
    ...and do you trust either?
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  3. #122
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Apparently Massachusetts is taking the whole States Rights things seriously. This could be interesting to watch. It may become a tit for tat issue.


    Mass. Suspends 100s of Ariz. Driver's Licenses
    So, what... people couldn't pass the test in MA or something, then took one in AZ, got the AZ license and then used that AZ license to get an MA license without passing the MA test? That sounds confusing, but it I have it down right, then it doesn't apply at all....

  4. #123
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    I trust politicians to do what is politically expedient for themselves; mainly get themselves re-elected. If Obama ever voted for this, that would be the reason.

    The power is still in the states hands. If they want to allow conceal carry, it will be allowed for all who can get their own state's certification. If they don't want to allow concealed carry, they have that choice.

  5. #124
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    I trust politicians to do what is politically expedient for themselves; mainly get themselves re-elected. If Obama ever voted for this, that would be the reason.

    The power is still in the states hands. If they want to allow conceal carry, it will be allowed for all who can get their own state's certification. If they don't want to allow concealed carry, they have that choice.
    Yes, but watch the feds control out of state permits using the commerce clause. Mark my words.

  6. #125
    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    The issue I have with it, is the Federal Government getting involved with what is truly a state vs state matter.
    I don't trust the Feds as far as I can spit. Especially with a President promising Sarah Brady "under the radar" gun control.
    He is now and has always been RABID anti-gun. Anytime your enemy offers to willingly give ground, you better be alert for tricks and traps.

    Understand, I am not against reciprocity, but I feel it is best left to the states. I don't want the Fed in anything it doesn't absolutely have to be in.
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it".
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  7. #126
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    They could do that without this bill if they had the political capital and will to do it.

    I am generally the guy who looks out for the slippery slope, but I just don't see it here.

  8. #127
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    They could do that without this bill if they had the political capital and will to do it.

    I am generally the guy who looks out for the slippery slope, but I just don't see it here.
    So if you wanted to do it, would you have an all out fight with the states by taking control? or subtly take over, taking over the financial burden and manpower burden of regulation, allowing them to shut their programs down, and then clamp down on it once you have been voluntarily given control?

  9. #128
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    So if you wanted to do it, would you have an all out fight with the states by taking control? or subtly take over, taking over the financial burden and manpower burden of regulation, allowing them to shut their programs down, and then clamp down on it once you have been voluntarily given control?
    I just don't see where this bill puts the federal gov't any closer to a takeover. The bill says if states allow concealed carry, they have to honor other states permits. In my opinion, this bill is not some big hurdle that would make a fed takeover any easier. I understand your fears, but I do not agree that those risks are currently in this bill. If they add 200 pages of regulation to it while trying to pass, i will be in your camp.

  10. #129
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    I just don't see where this bill puts the federal gov't any closer to a takeover. The bill says if states allow concealed carry, they have to honor other states permits. In my opinion, this bill is not some big hurdle that would make a fed takeover any easier. I understand your fears, but I do not agree that those risks are currently in this bill. If they add 200 pages of regulation to it while trying to pass, i will be in your camp.
    Who is going to manage it? Will the local PD be having to keep a list of every states phone numbers so they can call to verify if a permit is still valid? Will there be a hotline number they can call to verify the permit is valid that is a SPOC? Or will they just take the permit and believe it is not fake and or revoked and take your word for it? Will everything be entered into NCIC so that they can verify this information like they do with your drivers license? Will states begin reporting all of their permit information to the NCIC? Will they be required to? Currently concealed permit information is not in this system. Who do you think manages the NCIC system? Who do you think has access to it? Do you really believe the feds are going to pass a law and not include this kind of regulation in it? Really?

  11. #130
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Who manages driver licenses? or car registrations? There are issues with those. I know South Carolinians who have gotten tickets in GA for not having a tag and inspection on their trailer. I know South Carolinians who have gotten tickets in Ohio for not having a tag on the front of their car. Yes, there will be issues, but this is not all that new. There is precedent with these two issues. The Fed's are not involved any further and it has been decades. the biggest pitfall I see, is for states that don't allow cc. This might make it harder for them to allow it.

  12. #131
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    Who manages driver licenses? or car registrations? There are issues with those. I know South Carolinians who have gotten tickets in GA for not having a tag and inspection on their trailer. I know South Carolinians who have gotten tickets in Ohio for not having a tag on the front of their car. Yes, there will be issues, but this is not all that new. There is precedent with these two issues. The Fed's are not involved any further and it has been decades. the biggest pitfall I see, is for states that don't allow cc. This might make it harder for them to allow it.
    Is there an automobile control fight going on in congress? Please name the openly anti-automobile politicians, as I can give you a list of openly anti-firearm politicians in Washington. How many anti-automobile states are out there? Is governor Cuomo or mayor Bloomberg fighting with Washington for more automobile reform? is the Brady campaign grading states on autmobile restrictions and lobbying in DC for their control. WAKE UP

  13. #132
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Keep the DAM feds out of it. Good lord!!!!!!!!!!
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  14. #133
    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    After re-reading the documentation, I think I get "screwed" twice. 1 - Out of staters will be able to carry in my state and I can not. 2 - My Florida non-resident permit will no longer be recognized by other states.

  15. #134
    Member Array mrjam2jab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Apparently Massachusetts is taking the whole States Rights things seriously. This could be interesting to watch. It may become a tit for tat issue.


    Mass. Suspends 100s of Ariz. Driver's Licenses

    Poorly worded headline. MA is not suspending AZ DLs...they wouldn't have the authority to do that. They are suspending MA DLs. But it is a carp move.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I think a major catch to this plan is that like now, in reciprocy states, one must obey and comply with the laws of the state one is in, regardless of what state "issued" any permit. So if the laws of IL say "NO" than it's still no--iaw the laws of IL.
    Not really a catch. It's the same way reciprocity is now...you need to know the laws of the state you are in.


    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    I trust politicians to do what is politically expedient for themselves; mainly get themselves re-elected. If Obama ever voted for this, that would be the reason.

    The power is still in the states hands. If they want to allow conceal carry, it will be allowed for all who can get their own state's certification. If they don't want to allow concealed carry, they have that choice.
    Slight clarification...you own state's permit is only needed to carry in your home state. A non-res permit would be good in any of the other 48 states.

    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Who is going to manage it? Will the local PD be having to keep a list of every states phone numbers so they can call to verify if a permit is still valid? Will there be a hotline number they can call to verify the permit is valid that is a SPOC? Or will they just take the permit and believe it is not fake and or revoked and take your word for it? Will everything be entered into NCIC so that they can verify this information like they do with your drivers license? Will states begin reporting all of their permit information to the NCIC? Will they be required to? Currently concealed permit information is not in this system. Who do you think manages the NCIC system? Who do you think has access to it? Do you really believe the feds are going to pass a law and not include this kind of regulation in it? Really?
    How does reciprocity work now? Officer on the street contacts his dispatch who then contacts your home state police. Would work the exact same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by rmilchman View Post
    After re-reading the documentation, I think I get "screwed" twice. 1 - Out of staters will be able to carry in my state and I can not. 2 - My Florida non-resident permit will no longer be recognized by other states.
    Your FL non-res would still be good in 48 other states. You couldn't use it in IL or NJ.

  16. #135
    Member Array rangefinder's Avatar
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    I have not read all the posts. My apologies if this has already been covered.

    I would like to see the concealed carry permits/licenses honored across state lines as are drivers' licenses. So now my question: Are drivers' licenses honored across state lines because of a law(s) or agreement(s)? Are drivers' licenses just honored tacitly?
    CountryGal likes this.
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