ATF says pot users cannot own, buy guns - Page 3

ATF says pot users cannot own, buy guns

This is a discussion on ATF says pot users cannot own, buy guns within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by SFury I'm still not certain how states can get away with legalizing a substance banned by the federal government. Why the SCOTUS ...

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Thread: ATF says pot users cannot own, buy guns

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    I'm still not certain how states can get away with legalizing a substance banned by the federal government. Why the SCOTUS didn't strike those laws down long ago makes me shake my head.
    Let me preface this by stating that I don't do illicit drugs or medical MJ and I think people who do are not properly thinking things through. That having been said, I don't find any Constitutional justification for rules governing drugs, should there be any at all (a different discussion), being made by the feds. Therefore, under the 10th A, this is reserved to the states or the people. Yes, I realize that it has come from torturing the interstate commerce clause to say something it was never designed to say, but that, in and of itself, is an example of federal abuse of the Constitution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Liberals, drunks and dopers... I couldn't care less what the government or any other entity does to them.
    You may believe that people get what they deserve. But don't drag the whole country down with a government so bloated as to make war on its own people. My concern is not with punishing non-productive behavior. That isn't a legitimate function of government. My concern is with the failed drug war that can never succeed at the expense of productive citizens under the thumb of a government run amok.
    Rights get trampled in China and other dark and backward places. The founders never saw an ideal government as jackboots entrapping druggies, running guns, grabbing guns from peaceful citizens. Government is the problem.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Liberals, drunks and dopers... I couldn't care less what the government or any other entity does to them.
    The very government you want to punish drunks and dopers was founded by drunks and dopers. How ironic.

    "Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth & protection of the country."
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  4. #34
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    I wonder how this story will impact the BATFE's stance.

    In decades-old program, Uncle Sam provides pot - US news - Life - msnbc.com
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    I wonder how this story will impact the BATFE's stance.

    In decades-old program, Uncle Sam provides pot - US news - Life - msnbc.com
    Not at all, I suspect. There are only 4 people in the program, and it is closed to any new participants.
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    This law will end up turning harmless people into criminals. Most people aren’t going to choose between their guns and their "medical-marijuana", they’re going to choose which one to possess illegally. Which in effect will be both.

    Screw Big Brother. Turn me into a criminal and I will be just that!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    The very government you want to punish drunks and dopers was founded by drunks and dopers. How ironic.
    I never said I want the government to punish drunks and dopers. But I do have a hard time feeling sorry for them. The laziness and greed is what created the mess in the first place that you speak of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    You may believe that people get what they deserve. But don't drag the whole country down with a government so bloated as to make war on its own people. My concern is not with punishing non-productive behavior. That isn't a legitimate function of government. My concern is with the failed drug war that can never succeed at the expense of productive citizens under the thumb of a government run amok.
    Rights get trampled in China and other dark and backward places. The founders never saw an ideal government as jackboots entrapping druggies, running guns, grabbing guns from peaceful citizens. Government is the problem.
    I agree with this 100%. Social programs that allow people to get by drinking and abusing drugs has done nothing but make a mess of things. Back when our country was founded, there was no such thing. You produced or you starved. That tends to have a way of keeping things on the right path.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I never said I want the government to punish drunks and dopers. But I do have a hard time feeling sorry for them. The laziness and greed is what created the mess in the first place that you speak of.
    And all this time I thought that the feds banning things created the mess.
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  9. #39
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    A MT state representative says,
    “The only viable action open to Montana and other states is to change the federal law.”

    The link talks about state's rights and how the feds are denying 2A while it's our own Constitution that protects 2A. IMO, that protection is more important than where bureaucrats peg marijuana on an arbitrary schedule of class of drugs. As the OP says, "this should start an interesting discussion". That is starting to look like more perceptive understatement.

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    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    And all this time I thought that the feds banning things created the mess.
    It goes a lot deeper than the surface.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    And all this time I thought that the feds banning things created the mess.
    The Eighteenth Amendment worked quite well ... no, wait?
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  12. #42
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    Well thank goodness that they are leaving the cokeheads, meth-freaks,
    alcoholics, roid ragers, and benzo addicts alone.....

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    Let me preface this by stating that I don't do illicit drugs or medical MJ and I think people who do are not properly thinking things through. That having been said, I don't find any Constitutional justification for rules governing drugs, should there be any at all (a different discussion), being made by the feds. Therefore, under the 10th A, this is reserved to the states or the people. Yes, I realize that it has come from torturing the interstate commerce clause to say something it was never designed to say, but that, in and of itself, is an example of federal abuse of the Constitution.
    Oddly, I agree. That's why an amendment was needed for prohibition. If the MJ is grown in state, with seeds originating in state, and no fertilizer is purchased from out of state, its hard to see the commerce clause application.

    Here's a parallel. I don't know today's situation, but 30-40 years back many companies made veterinary biologicals, vaccines, for in-state use. These were unregulated by the feds so long as they weren't shipped in interstate commerce.

    I have to grudgingly give you this one.

    The counter argument is that no matter what, the stuff does find its way into interstate commerce. A California grower may sell in Oregon or AZ. So there is a national interest in the subject.
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    Right / Wrong & Legal / Illegal do not always see eye to eye.

    For the time being, pot is illegal under federal law. Right or wrong is moot. It is illegal.

    Is pot harmful? It kills a similar amount of brain cells as alcohol. It has more carcinogens that tobacco. It does impair your judgement.

    Is pot helpful? It is the best anti-nauseant & appetite stimulant out there... It allows people to still eat after chemo-therapy and the slew of drugs to fight HIV/AIDS. It can be a very helpful medication if used properly. So can alcohol. They can both be abused (alcohol more so than pot since it is physically rather than just psychologically addictive).

    Should people under the influence be carrying? Not in my opinion. Should people who use medical pot be restricted from buying handguns? Well, it does have a residual effect on the system. For the time being the questionairre does ask if you do drugs & pot is a drug...

    When I had a back injury, while I was on hydrocodone & valium I did not carry. I asked my doctor how long it would take to exit my system & he said just a couple of days. I waited 4 days before resuming carry. If you are involved in a shooting & your blood work comes back with substances in it you are going to jail.

    Your decision whether or not to risk it is yours. You know the consequences. I would rather retain my gun rights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 357and40 View Post
    Right / Wrong & Legal / Illegal do not always see eye to eye.

    For the time being, pot is illegal under federal law. Right or wrong is moot. It is illegal.

    .
    .
    .

    Your decision whether or not to risk it is yours. You know the consequences. I would rather retain my gun rights.
    I agree with all your points but the last... Your gun rights do not need to be retained, they are inherent, natural, God given.
    Whatever you choose to call them, they are only (merely) guaranteed by the Constitution. By their nature as "rights" they are extant with or without the paper to back them up.

    It is up to the people to stop governments from trying to usurp those rights by using the rights they already have by nature. That's what we did before... I hope that we do not have to do it again. At some point, it is the people who must say "I'm mad as heck, and I'm not going to take it any more."
    Harryball likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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