Campus carry unofficially approved by dean

Campus carry unofficially approved by dean

This is a discussion on Campus carry unofficially approved by dean within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I don't want to get into any specific details here in order to protect some folks. But here are the basics, and I welcome feedback. ...

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Thread: Campus carry unofficially approved by dean

  1. #1
    Member Array SigHawk's Avatar
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    Campus carry unofficially approved by dean

    I don't want to get into any specific details here in order to protect some folks. But here are the basics, and I welcome feedback.

    My wife has returned to finish her degree at a small private Christian college. She has a long commute to school. She has her concealed carry permit and wants to be able to carry her weapon in her car while she travels and lock the gun in the glovebox while she goes to class (the vehicle would be parked on campus property). Ideally, of course, she would like to be able to have her gun on her person at all times while on campus, but concealed carry on campus is both against the college's policy and against the law.

    She decided to have a conversation about Second Amendment rights on college campuses with the dean, whom she knows personally. She wasn't asking him for permission to carry, she was just commenting on the apparent conflict between the Second Amendment and the state law. As it turns out, the dean told her that there are several teachers who carry concealed on campus, and even a couple students that he knows about. He is a 2A supporter, and therefore turns a blind eye to the situation. In fact, he flat out said that it is nice to know that there are some folks on campus who would have his back during a school shooting, especially since he feels that Christian campuses could be targets for any number of whack jobs out there.

    He told her that he personally would not get her in trouble for carrying on campus (including in the classroom!), but he couldn't make any promises to how other students would react if her weapon were accidently noticed.

    I have mixed feelings about this. Of course I applaud the dean's support of the 2A, but at the same time I worry about what sort of trouble he could get into if a "sheep" discovered his attitude and actions, or if one of the teachers or students that carries does something stupid with their gun, and it is discovered that the dean had prior knowledge of that person carrying on campus.

    Part of me suspects that there are probably lots of campuses where permit holders carry their weapons (illegally and/or in violation of college policy), but they keep it concealed so no one ever knows.

    Comments are welcomed.
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  2. #2
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    It is against the law to carry on campus. I don't think anyone here is going to advise you otherwise.......at least not in writing and not on a public forum.
    Chad Rogers likes this.

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    Against policy is one thing, but against the law would change things for me...I'd want no part of possibly losing my RKBA.
    shooterX likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    The Dean probably understands that regretting a "blind eye" is a lot lighter burden than regretting 32 dead bodies that could easily have been saved.
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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    Well unfortunately, since it is forbidden by state law, I don't see a viable option for your wife. It doesn't matter how pro 2A the dean is, he does not over ride state law. If she carry's and gets caught she will face the full weight of the law. Fines, loss of permit, loss of right to own a gun, possible jail time, not to mention the effect it will have when she applies for a job and they find she is a convicted felon. Is it really worth the risk?
    Inspector71 and baren like this.
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    You mentioned a long commute...

    Can your wife legally store her EDC in her car during classes? If she can, I'd suggest that she carry pepper spray while she's away from the car (assuming that OC is legal on campus).

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    gunsnroses.....

    Here in Virginia there is a law on the books that bans carrying in churches, but our State Attorney has stated that he would turn a blind eye to violaters.

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    I agree with archer51, is it worth the risk?

    I understand your position completely. I work for a university in a state where even having them locked in your vehicle while on a college campus is prohibited by law. It is absolutely the most ridiculous, frustrating, and infuriating rule that I face in regards to concealed carry. When I weigh the risks of needing a weapon versus the likelihood and costs of getting caught with one, I keep coming to the same conclusion: it ain't worth it. If she can keep it in her vehicle, count yourself lucky. I have been considering parking off campus and taking a shuttle bus for this very reason.

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    Follow up: not minutes after I made that last post, I received the following "alert" - the university's idea of how to protect you. Note, the alert comes 13 hours after the incident:
    The Police Department is investigating an armed robbery that occurred last night (Wed., Oct. 5) at approximately 11:25 p.m.

    Two male students were walking northbound on (deleted) when they were approached by a blue sedan. The car was driven by a black male who was accompanied by a white male in the passenger seat. The suspects exited the vehicle and approached the victims. The white male suspect then pointed a silver handgun at the victims and demanded property.

    The driver was described as (irrelevant to the discussion)...
    The victims gave the suspects a cell phone and book bag then left the area.

    Anyone with information concerning this incident is asked to contact the Police Department.
    Unbelievable.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Well unfortunately, since it is forbidden by state law, I don't see a viable option for your wife. It doesn't matter how pro 2A the dean is, he does not over ride state law. If she carry's and gets caught she will face the full weight of the law. Fines, loss of permit, loss of right to own a gun, possible jail time, not to mention the effect it will have when she applies for a job and they find she is a convicted felon. Is it really worth the risk?
    I couldn't agree more. Certainly the dean does not override state law. I'm not suggesting that she should carry on campus, I just thought it was interesting that the dean would say what he did. I personally don't think it is worth the risk at this point in time. Now, if she or the school were to receive threats, the risks would change, and I might advocate it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gforty View Post
    Can your wife legally store her EDC in her car during classes? If she can, I'd suggest that she carry pepper spray while she's away from the car (assuming that OC is legal on campus).
    I don't think the state law allows her to have the weapon on campus, even if it is locked in her car. She has pepper spray, and while i'm not sure on the campus policy for OC, given the stance of the dean on guns, I don't think she would face any trouble if someone discovered the pepper spray (unless of course there is a state law forbidding OC spray on campus).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zsnake View Post
    gunsnroses.....

    Here in Virginia there is a law on the books that bans carrying in churches, but our State Attorney has stated that he would turn a blind eye to violaters.
    Its sill against the law even if there is no enforcement. I will not advocate anything that is illegal.

    [soap box -on]
    The loosening of restrictions on CC license holders is flowing through the country. Florida state preemption just when into effect this past Saturday. Ohio now has restaurant carry in class D establishments etc etc. Florida State Rep. Matt Gaetz(R) states: "The problems we experience with gun violence in the community rarely if ever come from someone with a concealed-carry permit."

    We as CCW holders are gaining the well deserved reputation of being law abiding citizens. We even know and understand the law better then most LEO and prosecutor's. This is a reputation that I will never jeopardize.

    So even if you can knowingly violate a law and know you wont get prosecuted doesn't make it right. The law is the law. If you want to carry on campus or church or whatever knowing that its a violation...then you do it solely on your own and the CCW community is not going to support you.
    [soap box -off]

    This is not directed at you Zsnake....just in general. ;-)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnroses View Post
    Its sill against the law even if there is no enforcement. I will not advocate anything that is illegal.
    While we're standing on soap boxes here, I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said, "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."

    Some might argue that a law forbidding concealed carry on campus (or church or wherever) is violating the Second Amendment and is therefore an unjust law. Our Supreme Court seems to protect Freedom of Speech everywhere (campuses, churches, etc.) but seems less willing to support our Second Amendment rights in those same places. The irony is some might argue that our Freedom of Speech can be more powerful (or dangerous) than our freedom to keep and bear arms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Well unfortunately, since it is forbidden by state law, I don't see a viable option for your wife. It doesn't matter how pro 2A the dean is, he does not over ride state law. If she carry's and gets caught she will face the full weight of the law. Fines, loss of permit, loss of right to own a gun, possible jail time, not to mention the effect it will have when she applies for a job and they find she is a convicted felon. Is it really worth the risk?
    Unfortunately "The Natural State" doesn't really tell what state the OP is in for a little research., but as in Missouri several of the prohibited place in the CCW law have the caveat "without permission", as in......
    concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to this section or a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state shall authorize any person to carry concealed firearms into:
    (1) Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol office or station without the consent of the chief law enforcement officer in charge of that office or station.

    (7) Any establishment licensed to dispense intoxicating liquor or nonintoxicating beer for consumption on the premises, which portion is primarily devoted to that purpose without the consent of the owner or manager.

    (10) Any higher education institution or elementary or secondary school facility without the consent of the governing body of the higher education institution or a school official or the district school board.
    Depending on the wording of the statute, if there is a "without the consent" clause then she would be perfectly legal on the word of the dean alone. Many people in Missouri think carrying in a bar is illegal, but for a couple different reasons it is not.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Unfortunately "The Natural State" doesn't really tell what state the OP is in for a little research., but as in Missouri several of the prohibited place in the CCW law have the caveat "without permission", as in......


    Depending on the wording of the statute, if there is a "without the consent" clause then she would be perfectly legal on the word of the dean alone. Many people in Missouri think carrying in a bar is illegal, but for a couple different reasons it is not.
    That's a fantastic point. Thanks for pointing that out.
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