Common sense alternative to H.R. 822 (carry reciprocity)

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Thread: Common sense alternative to H.R. 822 (carry reciprocity)

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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Common sense alternative to H.R. 822 (carry reciprocity)

    Gun Owners of America

    House Committee to vote on CCW Reciprocity Soon!


    The House Judiciary Committee will soon be voting on legislation that will guarantee the right of citizens to carry firearms out-of-state. And the vote could come as early as today or tomorrow!

    GOA has alerted you to H.R. 822 -- introduced by Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-FL) -- and explained the weaknesses in his bill. Many of you have taken action on our alerts and informed your Representative that there is a better approach.

    That approach has been championed by Rep. Paul Broun of Georgia, the author of H.R. 2900 -- or the Secure Access to Firearms Enhancement (SAFE) Act. The Broun bill has several advantages:

    It would allow residents of California, New Jersey and other “may issue” states to get out-of-state carry permits (say, from Florida or Utah) and carry in their home states -- a benefit they would not enjoy under the Stearns’ bill;

    Broun also protects the right of gun owners in non-permit states like Vermont and allows them to carry out-of-state without a permit; and
    Finally, the Broun bill does not rely on an expansive, erroneous interpretation of the Commerce Clause. Passing gun legislation that uses the Commerce Clause for authority could undercut efforts at promoting Firearms Freedom Act legislation throughout the country which specifically declares the Commerce Clause has no authority over the production of intrastate guns.

    We need to continue putting heat on Congress, now that this reciprocity legislation is beginning to move. You’ve already sent your emails, but now it’s time to change things up and send postcards. If the House committee passes the Stearns bill, then it will probably come to the floor of the House some time next month.

    So there is plenty of time to inundate Representatives’ offices with postcards and mail -- urging them to support H.R. 2900 -- or to amend the Stearns bill so that it contains the gun owners’ protections in the Broun bill.

    So, GOA members, please be looking for the latest mailing from GOA headquarters which should begin arriving this week. And please take the enclosed postcard and send it to your Representative. Then, take the extra two postcards and have pro-gun family members and friends send them, as well. That will multiply your efforts by 200%.

    Not receiving GOA’s mailings and postcards?
    Click here and sign up to become a GOA member today.
    http://gunowners.org/store/membership
    Last edited by Stubborn; October 13th, 2011 at 11:13 AM.
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    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    "the Broun bill does not rely on an expansive, erroneous interpretation of the Commerce Clause. Passing gun legislation that uses the Commerce Clause for authority could undercut efforts at promoting Firearms Freedom Act legislation throughout the country which specifically declares the Commerce Clause has no authority over the production of intrastate guns."

    This is the way to go and does not erode the 10th further. Thanks for the update and I have responded to my legislators.
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    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    I have contacted all representatives concerned to vote " NO " on this. I do NOT want the federal gov. in control of our CCW permits! It may sound good up front, but think about it, the Feds deciding what guns you can carry where, when, etc., etc. NIGHTMARE! Let the states decide and keep pounding them for passage and recipricocity. Once it's federal, it's history and at the whims of whoever controls the legislature. NO! NO ! NO! to H.R. 822
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    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    They are saying" Oh, it will be good, nationwide carry, no worry about individual state laws" ( which ARE a pain ), but think about it. Now, at the worst, you can move to a state that agrees with your position. I know it's not easy or practical sometimes...but you CAN. Most states are falling in line with concealed carry, more so with time. With H.R. 822...there will be nowhere to go. What They decide are your rights, will be all inclusive with no recourse. That is NOT their decision.. it was already decided with the 2nd amendment to the Constitution.
    I, for one, do not want those yahoos having that kind of power over me!
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    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatail View Post
    I have contacted all representatives concerned to vote " NO " on this. I do NOT want the federal gov. in control of our CCW permits! It may sound good up front, but think about it, the Feds deciding what guns you can carry where, when, etc., etc. NIGHTMARE! Let the states decide and keep pounding them for passage and recipricocity. Once it's federal, it's history and at the whims of whoever controls the legislature. NO! NO ! NO! to H.R. 822
    Quote Originally Posted by boatail View Post
    They are saying" Oh, it will be good, nationwide carry, no worry about individual state laws" ( which ARE a pain ), but think about it. Now, at the worst, you can move to a state that agrees with your position. I know it's not easy or practical sometimes...but you CAN. Most states are falling in line with concealed carry, more so with time. With H.R. 822...there will be nowhere to go. What They decide are your rights, will be all inclusive with no recourse. That is NOT their decision.. it was already decided with the 2nd amendment to the Constitution.
    I, for one, do not want those yahoos having that kind of power over me!
    Agree with you on 822. We are now speaking of H.R.2900.
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    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jem102 View Post
    Agree with you on 822. We are now speaking of H.R.2900.
    Sorry, got carried away there. 2900 sounds great, almost too great to ever happen though. I hope I'm proved wrong. I would be pleasantly surprised if the antis in Ca. and N.Y. for example, alllowed someone fron Vt. to waltz into their state carrying without a permit. Don't get me wrong, they SHOULD and that should be true everywhere.
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    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    This bill will never make it through the Senate, much less survive an Obama veto even if it miraculously did. It will never become law.

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    Amend, and Add Ons are the two things that happen at the 11th hour that scare the out of me.

    Granted it was an Add On that got us National Park Carry signed, fortunately still untouched.

    As much as I would love National Reciprocity the same way ones drivers license is treated, I would just as soon the Feds stay out of this one in any manner. Career politicians have lost their way in upholding the Constitution, and this has been an issue that has been treated like an infectious disease for too long for them to suddenly switch their stance.

    We have 9.5 states that are holdouts at "May Issue" and tow holdouts with right denied. A lot has happened in the last 3 years. I'd say give it another 3 years to see what the states can do to apply pressure on the matter.
    Sticks

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    I think this article explains H.R. 822 very well:

    H.R. 822 — A Trojan Horse? | National Association for Gun Rights
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

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    At the great risk of sounding arrogant, I really don't think most of you understand the reciprocity bill (HR822). States will still have discretion in deciding who gets to CCW and who doesn't. I don't see the problem with people GA permit holders being able to leagally carry in SC, courtesy of a federal bill. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the Broun bill to be law, but this is a battle to be won in small steps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangloss9 View Post
    At the great risk of sounding arrogant, I really don't think most of you understand the reciprocity bill (HR822). States will still have discretion in deciding who gets to CCW and who doesn't. I don't see the problem with people GA permit holders being able to leagally carry in SC, courtesy of a federal bill. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the Broun bill to be law, but this is a battle to be won in small steps.
    I really don't see one wit of difference between the two bills with respect to the issue that seem to perturb some participants here: states rights and constitutionality.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    The difference is, at least as I see it, is that the States will have what the feds give them to choose from. Yes, they can deny or accept, but believe me, they won't be able to alter it...thats the problem. Once the Feds get control of CCW, watchout. There will be a centralized " can do/ cannot do " list attached that the States can only accept or refuse ( meaning, No CCW for that State ) And that will all depend on who is in power at the time..no thanks!
    Do you REALLY trust the Feds with this important of an issue? Especially the current ones?
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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    As much as I would love National Reciprocity the same way ones drivers license is treated, I would just as soon the Feds stay out of this one in any manner.
    Drivers licenses are handled on a state level, with each state having a law on the books regarding out of state licenses.

    Their is nothing constitutional or anything like that on that issue.

    Check your state statutes.

    Further...as to this bill impacting on Firearm Freedom Acts - those acts are BS. Horse Pucky. They are not valid in the face of 200 years of Constitutional Law.

    The issue of federal authority was settled with the Civil War and Supreme Court cases regarding the commerce clause.

    They are States throwing a tantrum. If they were serious about firearm rights, then the Senators from those states would stand firm, filibuster or block everything that came to the floor till they got the NFA '34 & GCA '68 pruned way the hell back.

    Instead, they pass ineffectual, unconstitutional law and act as if they did something grand.

    Feh.

    The hell with all the supposed constitutional scholars who don't bother reading the dam thing.

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    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Drivers licenses are handled on a state level, with each state having a law on the books regarding out of state licenses.

    Their is nothing constitutional or anything like that on that issue.

    Check your state statutes.

    The issue of federal authority was settled with the Civil War and Supreme Court cases regarding the commerce clause.

    They are States throwing a tantrum. If they were serious about firearm rights, then the Senators from those states would stand firm, filibuster or block everything that came to the floor till they got the NFA '34 & GCA '68 pruned way the hell back.

    Instead, they pass ineffectual, unconstitutional law and act as if they did something grand.

    Feh.

    The hell with all the supposed constitutional scholars who don't bother reading the dam thing.
    Throwing a tantrum for a reason, wake up and smell the coffee friend. I have read the constitution and know this is play for power. Let the feds get control of this issue and see what happens. You will be answering to Pelosi and Reid and Boxer to carry and defend yourself and family.
    Light travels faster than sound...thats why some people appear bright before they speak

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Drivers licenses are handled on a state level, with each state having a law on the books regarding out of state licenses.

    Their is nothing constitutional or anything like that on that issue....
    That's my point. We have states that are dragging their feet on the issue, and if this bill were non toxic, it would drag the holdouts, kicking and screaming if necessary, into accepting the 2A for what it is.

    I'd wager the Feds would have stepped in on the drivers license subject if there was a reciprocity issue with those...I guess that would be one way to contain the Californians....Hmmmmm.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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