Bill passes allowing govt' to imprison American citizens without the right of Habeus

This is a discussion on Bill passes allowing govt' to imprison American citizens without the right of Habeus within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; If these stories don't scare the Hell out of us, we are beyond hope......... Attached to this defense bill, is a rider that allows the ...

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Thread: Bill passes allowing govt' to imprison American citizens without the right of Habeus

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    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Bill passes allowing govt' to imprison American citizens without the right of Habeus

    If these stories don't scare the Hell out of us, we are beyond hope.........

    Attached to this defense bill, is a rider that allows the government to throw American Citizens in jail, without the right of Habeus Corpus, all the govt has to do is "define" you as a "terrorist." So, all us gun owners who believe in the Constitution could be "classified" as "Terrorists" and we lose our constitution rights......

    Senate Approves $662 Billion Defense Bill.

    Even MSNBC is taking a dim view.........

    MSNBC REPORTS: Obama Justifies FEMA imprisonment of civilians! - Obama Approves Prolonged Detention of Citizens without being Charged | Video | Americans For Freedom.
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
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    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Something has to be done to repeal this ridiculous law. It's also surprising and appaling that the gun rights organizations are not lobbying to challenge and repeal this law. Otherwise, it's going to get worse each and every day and the minute our freedoms are sinking in exchange for greater security, the terrorists from 9-11 have already won.

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    And we have to make sure we don't fight this in a partisan way. It is obvious both parties were fine after 9/11 and with this new bill to extremely over step boundaries the constitution SHOULD protect.
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    I posted about this at noon today... Of course it passed... There are those who will say "if you don't do anything wrong, you have nothing to fear."

    Bull puckey.

    We have gotten along with the patriot act since 9/11. But at some point or another, they're going to get the wrong person... my hope is that it happens to be a senator, or a high ranking official in the administration... but my hopes rarely come to fruition...

    sigh.

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    Senior Member Array wdbailey's Avatar
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    Since the fear monger in the press don't seem to be inclined to actually share the language of the bill I thought I'd look it up for myself

    Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

    Read it and draw your own conclusion but here's a hint, if you're not an active member of al Qeada on a battlefield somewhere you don't really have to worry about the black helicopters swooping in on your Fortress of Solitude

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    Understood, but the sixth amendment is the sixth amendment. This bill is in clear conflict with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    Something has to be done to repeal this ridiculous law. It's also surprising and appaling that the gun rights organizations are not lobbying to challenge and repeal this law. Otherwise, it's going to get worse each and every day and the minute our freedoms are sinking in exchange for greater security, the terrorists from 9-11 have already won.
    They can't repeal it yet - it is not law. It has only been passed by the Senate (and yes I see it as very bad), but it has not gotten through the House and O said he will veto it. Best course of action - call you rep in the House and let him hear your thoughts. Congress can be reached at 202.224.3121.
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    of course it is BAD anytime the govenment has complete control over its people and they have no recourse, no way to protest what is happening to them, no other option but to submit it is BAD!!!!!! if this is passed into law the freedom we know and love is gone forever. when all they have to say is your bad and they take you away and detain you for as long as they want and you have no rights you cant even see your lawyer its BAD. I wonder if the people of germany were talking like this and saying well as long as its not us, as long as they dont come for me its OK, untill they did come for them and then its to late. I guess the question I have is if this is allowed to stand what will be next and when the next thing comes will we as a people just sit back and allow that to happen as well? it seems to me that the easyest way to take someones rights and freedoms away from them is alittle bit at a time and majority of the people say well ok but no more and the next time say ok but no more untill we look around and we have nothing left. just my 2cents worth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    If these stories don't scare the Hell out of us, we are beyond hope.........

    Attached to this defense bill, is a rider that allows the government to throw American Citizens in jail, without the right of Habeus Corpus, all the govt has to do is "define" you as a "terrorist." So, all us gun owners who believe in the Constitution could be "classified" as "Terrorists" and we lose our constitution rights......

    Senate Approves $662 Billion Defense Bill.

    Even MSNBC is taking a dim view.........

    MSNBC REPORTS: Obama Justifies FEMA imprisonment of civilians! - Obama Approves Prolonged Detention of Citizens without being Charged | Video | Americans For Freedom.
    I had intended to not say a word on this because it treads a bit onto partisan issues, but a couple of things do need saying.

    1) It passed through The Senate Armed Services Committee Unanimously. The controversial provision apparently got little attention in committee. IMO, they have to be a bunch of knuckle heads to have let this one through: and that goes for both the committee Chair, Carl Levin and the Ranking Member--I think it is Lindsay Graham but I am not sure. No respect for their sworn duty to preserve the constitution.

    2) It passed The Senate with nearly all of the Republican senators voting for it; Rand Paul interestingly made quite a good speech against it and I assume he voted nay. I think I counted 14 Dem Senators who voted for it. ALL who voted for it (party affiliation aside) should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

    3) The Executive Cabinet heads, Justice, Homeland Security, Defense, sub cabinet Agency head, such as FBI and CIA, ALL sent letters to The Senate asking that this NOT be passed. Contrary to what one might glean from the links in post 1 here by the Chaplain, a veto has been threatened by The President.

    4) The President has promised to VETO it. There aren't enough votes for an over-ride.

    IMO it is about the most dangerous and pernicious, and blatantly unconstitutional legislation ever emanating from those turkeys.

    The truly odd thing is that DOD and Justice DO NOT WANT this provision. But The Senate did it anyway. There's partisan politics going on here folks; game playing with our freedom and the Bill of Rights to put The President in an untenable position.

    The articles in the link are misrepresentations of Obama's position. If you actually watched the debate on this, as I did, it was repeatedly stated that The President had indicated he would veto this bill.

    My guess, even if he doesn't veto it, he will include a signing statement voiding that section.

    Laugh of the day-- If the President must sign this he should immediately follow The Senate's desires, brand them all enemy combatants and ship the unholy lot of them off to GITMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    Since the fear monger in the press don't seem to be inclined to actually share the language of the bill I thought I'd look it up for myself

    Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

    Read it and draw your own conclusion but here's a hint, if you're not an active member of al Qeada on a battlefield somewhere you don't really have to worry about the black helicopters swooping in on your Fortress of Solitude
    This is garbage language that offers no one any protection. The Executive has the sole authority to make that determination unreviewed by any court. In short, anyone could be hauled off.

    During the debate the side opposed repeatedly mentioned the case of Brandon Mayfield. Look it up. Under this law he would have become a "disappeared" though he was in fact absolutely innocent and the FBI just botched their interpretation of some partial finger prints. Had Spain not insisted that they there was an error and they knew who the fingerprints actually belonged to, Mayfield who had been arrested would have been shipped off to never be heard from again.

    This law is insane-- and the Prez has no business signing it even if it means some sort of stalemate on military funding till the public gets sufficiently riled that the Critters have to take their heads out of their bottoms.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Quote Originally Posted by docdozer View Post
    Understood, but the sixth amendment is the sixth amendment. This bill is in clear conflict with it.
    Yes, but a lot folks could disappear until this reaches the Supremes. Look how long it took them to deal with Padilla before Uncle was forced to try him in a civilian court.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    When I started this thread, I did not realize that it had not gone thru the House yet, nor that the Prez has prmised to veto it--yet the very fact that it has made it this far is very, very troubling.......
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

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    McCain was an author, but I read that Paul Ryan called for a role call vote on the amendment instead of a voice vote, and it failed. But there's still some bad stuff in the bill which I hope the house will strip out. The POTUS would love to have the army haul me away with my FFL. In any case, he can have the justice department personnel who are assigned to INTERPOL disappear us right now.
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Read the bill.........

    it does not allow imprisonment of US Citizens or Anyone living here legally..... and even says it's not applicable to US Citizens and anyone living here legally .... that all of their constitutional rights apply, etc. and so on.

    Doesn't make it a good bill, it just doesn't say what people are saying it does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I had intended to not say a word on this because it treads a bit onto partisan issues, but a couple of things do need saying.

    1) It passed through The Senate Armed Services Committee Unanimously. The controversial provision apparently got little attention in committee. IMO, they have to be a bunch of knuckle heads to have let this one through: and that goes for both the committee Chair, Carl Levin and the Ranking Member--I think it is Lindsay Graham but I am not sure. No respect for their sworn duty to preserve the constitution.

    2) It passed The Senate with nearly all of the Republican senators voting for it; Rand Paul interestingly made quite a good speech against it and I assume he voted nay. I think I counted 14 Dem Senators who voted for it. ALL who voted for it (party affiliation aside) should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

    3) The Executive Cabinet heads, Justice, Homeland Security, Defense, sub cabinet Agency head, such as FBI and CIA, ALL sent letters to The Senate asking that this NOT be passed. Contrary to what one might glean from the links in post 1 here by the Chaplain, a veto has been threatened by The President.

    4) The President has promised to VETO it. There aren't enough votes for an over-ride.

    IMO it is about the most dangerous and pernicious, and blatantly unconstitutional legislation ever emanating from those turkeys.

    The truly odd thing is that DOD and Justice DO NOT WANT this provision. But The Senate did it anyway. There's partisan politics going on here folks; game playing with our freedom and the Bill of Rights to put The President in an untenable position.

    The articles in the link are misrepresentations of Obama's position. If you actually watched the debate on this, as I did, it was repeatedly stated that The President had indicated he would veto this bill.

    My guess, even if he doesn't veto it, he will include a signing statement voiding that section.

    Laugh of the day-- If the President must sign this he should immediately follow The Senate's desires, brand them all enemy combatants and ship the unholy lot of them off to GITMO.
    Hop - I like your final solution to this. Couple of issues with your thoughts though. First, I think you will find this is not a partisan issue. You and I are in basic agreement on this issue. It is a "ruling class" against the people issue and highlights why informed voting is so very important. Second, if I read the article linked in the OP correctly, the vote was 93 - 7. Pretty much all of them went for it and that is a veto-proof margin in the Senate.

    Thinking about this in the context of the other thread we have been debating - it is actions like this that the FF knew government would eventually try and one I the reasons they included the 2A
    Tzadik likes this.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

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