[CBS] ATF Used Fast and Furious to Implement Gun Regulation

[CBS] ATF Used Fast and Furious to Implement Gun Regulation

This is a discussion on [CBS] ATF Used Fast and Furious to Implement Gun Regulation within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Source Link: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News Here is a ...

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Thread: [CBS] ATF Used Fast and Furious to Implement Gun Regulation

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    [CBS] ATF Used Fast and Furious to Implement Gun Regulation

    Source Link:
    Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

    Here is a couple exerts from the article:

    ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

    On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."
    Two earlier Demand Letters were initiated in 2000 and affected a relatively small number of gun shops. Demand Letter 3 was to be much more sweeping, affecting 8,500 firearms dealers in four southwest border states: Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas. ATF chose those states because they "have a significant number of crime guns traced back to them from Mexico." The reporting requirements were to apply if a gun dealer sells two or more long guns to a single person within five business days, and only if the guns are semi-automatic, greater than .22 caliber and can be fitted with a detachable magazine.
    For anyone who thinks the Obama Administrations is neutral when it comes to firearm legislation, they need to take a serious look at this article. This is scary stuff.


  2. #2
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    Not only a repost, but not self defense related. Moved here- I initially forgot to re open the thread for all those who PM'd me about it.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    The idea that the Government would send out its agents to intentionally break laws in an effort to sway the public into calling for harsher laws is incredible. If the new laws they create are not harsh enough will the Government then send its agents out to break those also?

    Whats next. Will they start instructing their agents to rob banks and kidnap people to prove we need harsher laws there too?

    Michael

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    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    A good reporter doesn't find great stories Jimmy, A good reporter makes them great.
    Oh, how so long ago was Superman, it seems the media has followed that mantra and taken it to the next level. Now the Government is following in their shoes.

    It boggles the mind of this simple everyday Joe how could people like that live with themselves. I guess when your that much of an elitist, it easy to say "To He.. with everyone else, I'll do what I want."

    sounds almost like the attitudes of criminals. Doesn't it?
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4my son View Post
    sounds almost like the attitudes of criminals. Doesn't it?
    It is criminal...
    surefire7 likes this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Holder just got done testifying and remains confident in the deputy scape goat...

    I was personally taught that the fish stinks from the head.. start with Holder... and the rest of the "head" can go in 2012.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Not only a repost, but not self defense related. Moved here- I initially forgot to re open the thread for all those who PM'd me about it.
    Thanks, Sixto. My bad for sticking it in the wrong place to begin with.

    In regards to the article, I wonder if anyone is really going to be held accountable for these actions. I whole-heartedly agree that these activities that were performed by the ATF were criminal. Normally I would say that "I can't believe it" when a government entity does something illegal to pursue their agenda, but after everything that keeps coming to light in the public, I really can believe they did this stuff. Seeing the ATF be dismantled would be a step forward, from here. I don't mean rebranding the entity with another name, either. Very disenchanting stuff going on these days...

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Roger Clemens is presently being tried for lying to Congress in a federal court. The Government claims he lied about taking steroids. The Congress takes steroid uses in sports very seriously.

    So far in the Fast and Furious scandal the most serious actions being talked about is firing someone for lying to Congress about allowing criminals to purchase weapons. It seems they do not take gun running and the murder of a Federal agent as seriously as they do a ball players drug use.

    Michael
    NavyAirdale likes this.

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    Member Array Eaglebeak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    It is criminal...
    Sadly, I think we've made a full-circle back to the old "wild west" days when the only difference between "outlaw thugs" and "legal government agents" was totally dependent on who was wearing a cheap tin badge at the time.
    Dadsnugun likes this.

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    Senior Member Array Gun Bunny's Avatar
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    We are working on gun control under the radar
    President Obama
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    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    You should look up some of the quotes of Holder. It's amazing, he was trying to spin this situation into passing more gun control. He basically armed organizations that are at war with us, and is using that as a reason to pass more gun restrictions.

    He does not understand why he's been brought up for review. The reality of the situation appears to be beyond his level of comprehension.

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    But the thing is,Gun Shops already have to report more than one gun sale to the same person on the same day,I'm LEO and went to mine and Bought 2 G27's as BUG's,after the initial call in,the owner,which i've known for about 15 years,started filling out another sheet,I ask what it was,never seen it before,he told me it is called a "Multiple"for short,they have to do it now on more than 1 gun buy,by the same person,on the same day and up to 5 days after the original purchase

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    I travel to Mexico several times a year for business. You can just imagine what they think about all of this and I have discussed the issue at length while there. They are seriously pissed!! There is a move to extradite Holder and others to Mexico and I hope they succeed.
    phreddy likes this.

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalman View Post
    I travel to Mexico several times a year for business. You can just imagine what they think about all of this and I have discussed the issue at length while there. They are seriously pissed!! There is a move to extradite Holder and others to Mexico and I hope they succeed.
    The drug Cartels in Mexico have been killing Judges, Politicians and police in an effort to destabilize the Government there. The U.S. government has been making weapons available to the Cartels. I wonder how our Government would react if the roles were reversed. If the Mexican government were actively arming groups here that were attempting to overthrow our Government.

    Michael

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    Extradite Holder and others to Mexico,,,,, great idea.

    Can you believe Holder refusing to take the oath because he does
    not want to face perjury charges,,,, I thought you had to do
    that to testify,,,,, must not. How the change working for you?

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