"Illegal immigrants have no right to arms"- Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit

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Thread: "Illegal immigrants have no right to arms"- Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit

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    "Illegal immigrants have no right to arms"- Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit

    Illegal immigrants have no right to arms - court

    Lawyer argued that his client was a member of "the people"...(as in the 'Right of the people to keep....').

    Remember that the SCOTUS has previously found that illegal immigrants have constitutional rights in criminal cases, like the right to trial & rights against unreasonable search & seizure. So if they have some 'rights' found in the Constitution, why don't ALL the rights apply to them?

    OR

    Should illegal aliens have no constitutional protections? Should they be treated like enemy combatants?

    I bring this up after seeing several semi-related stories like the one above. You've probably heard about the legislation that will be signed by BO that will allow detention of US citizens, without due process & another story about a New England mayor who wants to allow illegal aliens to vote!
    I have my own opinion on this, but don't want to bias anybody's response..........so........

    What say you?
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    IMO, the only "right" they have is to be picked up and deported back to the country they came from. I know and work with many legal aliens who applied for a immigration permit, waited years for it to be granted and have worked hard become contributing members of this country. To give the same to someone who sneaks in is a slap in the face to those who do it the right way.
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    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    IMO, the only "right" they have is to be picked up and deported back to the country they came from.
    I agree 100% Apply for the right to come here and work. Come across the border through the checkpoint with your papers in hand.
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    Last week in South Texas 2 kids were shooting hoops at school,out of nowhere they were both hit with bullets,BP Helicopter spotting some individuals in the area with rifles.there were 2 guys sighting in a rifle on their property,gun was confiscated for ballistic check,they caught one guy Illegally trespassing and attempting to poach a Javelina,this guy was an illegal Alien in possession of a firearm,The feds got involved because he was Illegally in possession of a firearm.They still aren't sure which firearm called the injuries yet,one kid is paralyzed from the waist
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    I disagree with the court, though possibly agree with the practical result.

    The BOR applies to persons present in this country. You are here, you get the right to speak. You are here you get the right to move about the country. You get charged with a crime, you get the right to a trial (maybe no longer even for some citizens :-).

    You get picked up, charged, you must get adjudicated as being here illegally with some reasonable due process rights before you get deported or jailed or fined--whatever they do these days.

    We'd have barbaric chaos if we denied illegals all rights. For one thing how do you know someone is an illegal until AFTER there has been some real due process and serious effort at determining the status.

    The court can not have it both ways. The court can't pick and choose. That is amending the wording of the BOR through an improper approach.

    Now, having said all that, I do think it is fair that since ownership or possession of firearms is usually contingent on a clean record, someone demonstrably here illegally does not have the clean record to support firearms possession. Add illegal possession of a firearm to their charges (as we do with felons), put them in jail for that-- after a proper judicial process-- and then deport them when they have completed their time for the illegal possession. Make it known that an illegal found in possession of a firearm will be charged for that and serve time before they are deported.

    There is a tad of a conundrum on all of this.

    I am absolutely not in the camp of those who think persons other than US Citizens should get a right to vote. I don't favor giving that right back to felons. I don't favor extending it to lawful aliens. It makes no sense to grant voting rights to folks on student or other temporary visas, or worse, tourist visas. The folks with Green Cards (permanent residents) can wait till they complete the process and have citizenship. Some won't ever make it and others choose to not pursue US Citizenship.

    Now, here's something lots of people really really overlook. It is easy to knee jerk all sorts of stiff or draconian treatment for aliens, documented or undocumented, but remember, other countries follow our lead. If you want profiling and deportation without proper safeguards, if you want a papers please approach, it will all backfire on US Citizens traveling or living abroad; sooner not later.

    For example, when we began to finger print tourists entering our country, several other countries retaliated by fingerprinting US citizens who entered their country as tourists. What we do to aliens here (legal or otherwise) will be done to us elsewhere. Count on it.

    Then remember the golden rule. Don't do to others what you don't want done to you.


    In short, the fact that someone is an illegal should be a disqualification for possession of firearms, not because they are aliens, but because they are breaking the law-- if only by their unlawful presence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Last week in South Texas 2 kids were shooting hoops at school,out of nowhere they were both hit with bullets,BP Helicopter spotting some individuals in the area with rifles.there were 2 guys sighting in a rifle on their property,gun was confiscated for ballistic check,they caught one guy Illegally trespassing and attempting to poach a Javelina,this guy was an illegal Alien in possession of a firearm,The feds got involved because he was Illegally in possession of a firearm.They still aren't sure which firearm called the injuries yet,one kid is paralyzed from the waist
    We could of course hold our outrage against the illegal until we find out which idiot did it. I sort of suspect it was the target shooters based on what I read in the newsy. Forensics will hopefully settle it.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    "We the People" means We the people of the United States of America
    (and also the people who are here visiting, or going to school).
    Heck even they are not allowed to legally buy and own firearms while here, to the best of my knowledge.
    Not the chumps who slip under the border illegally
    ctr likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    In my opinion, If one is NOT a citizen of the USA, AND , is here ILLEGALLY, then they should NOT be able to partake of our BOR or our constitution.
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    The 14th Amendment explicitly implies that no State shall make, pass or enforce any law to abridge the privileges or immunities of a citizen, and that no State may deprive any person (does not specify citizen for this part) of life, liberty, or property without due process.
    So by our own constitution certain rights are recognized as rights of all people not just citizens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfries View Post
    The 14th Amendment explicitly implies that no State shall make, pass or enforce any law to abridge the privileges or immunities of a citizen, and that


    That one is really clear. Citizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by pfries View Post
    no State may deprive any person (does not specify citizen for this part) of life, liberty, or property without due process.
    So by our own constitution certain rights are recognized as rights of all people not just citizens.
    What is being discussed in this thread of not denying anyone of anything. Persons who come into this country illegally, or are not yet granted citizenship, are not being deprived of anything except carrying a firearm legally, purchasing a firearm legally, or getting a license to carry a firearm. Since it is illegal for them to have a weapon while here, carry a weapon while here or purchase a weapon while here, they are not deprived of anything that they are legally allowed to have to begin with.

    Property is something that one already owns. Since they aren't allowed to bring one here, they shouldn't have a weapon. Other property, that they are legally allowed to bring with them, should not be taken away.

    Liberty. Liberty to what? Not even all US Citizens have all of their liberties without infringement of some kind. How about we fight for that first before we argue giving those liberties to illegals.

    Life. I see nowhere that we have taken any illegal lives other than those that were killed while committing a crime.

    I do not, however, think that they should not be able to defend themselves against an attacker, they just would have to do the best they can with what they are allowed to have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post
    That one is really clear. Citizen.



    What is being discussed in this thread of not denying anyone of anything. Persons who come into this country illegally, or are not yet granted citizenship, are not being deprived of anything except carrying a firearm legally, purchasing a firearm legally, or getting a license to carry a firearm. Since it is illegal for them to have a weapon while here, carry a weapon while here or purchase a weapon while here, they are not deprived of anything that they are legally allowed to have to begin with.

    Property is something that one already owns. Since they aren't allowed to bring one here, they shouldn't have a weapon. Other property, that they are legally allowed to bring with them, should not be taken away.

    Liberty. Liberty to what? Not even all US Citizens have all of their liberties without infringement of some kind. How about we fight for that first before we argue giving those liberties to illegals.

    Life. I see nowhere that we have taken any illegal lives other than those that were killed while committing a crime.

    I do not, however, think that they should not be able to defend themselves against an attacker, they just would have to do the best they can with what they are allowed to have.
    My bad it was more a response to AZJD1968’s comment above mine, we do extend certain (as noted in my post)protections to anyone and everyone, the owning and bearing of arms is not one of those things.
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    "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
    That seems to me to mean that the constitution was meant to be exclusive to the citizens of this country.

    IMO, this tends to show how screwed-up the SCOTUS is when they say that any constitutional right applies to non-citizens.
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    Thank you sir. You beat me to it.
    Stop whining and go do something that makes a difference!
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    Too many people are trying to give people who broke the law to be here any rights. Outside of letting them talk, and not letting people kill them for no legitimate reason are all the rights they should get.

    Illegal aliens should not have any voting rights, should not qualify for any aid, they should not be able to get any form of legal ID, and they should be deported if found here illegally. In most cases at any rate. We all know there are limited circumstances that deserve recognition, but that is not the focus of this thread.

    Most illegal immigrants deserve to be deported. Permanently.

    Allowing them any rights, outside of the basic rights of showing human compassion, makes a mockery of what my Great-Grandparents went through to come here legally. They came here with nothing outside of a suitcase full of clothes from what was Czechoslavakia at the time. They had no money, and the only skills they had were the ones they learned from their days working the farms in the Old Country.

    Yet, they came here, and became proud Americans. They did not thumb their noses at the laws, they did not ask for anything outside of the opportunity to earn their own way in this life. Which is what they did.

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    As far as carrying weapons goes, it's all a moot point as far as I'm concerned because it's also "illegal" for a felon to carry a firearm. Geeeze, an "illegal" is already illegal just by their parasitic presence in this country, and most of them are further "illegal" because they have no valid driver's license, insurance, or legal employment while they're sucking away benefits (thanks to the liberals) that should be going to our citizens and legal aliens. Some people live in fantasy land and feel that making anything "illegal" is going to have any effect whatsoever on armed felons or illegals who have no respect for the law anyway. So, I guess we "legal people" should be "legally prepared" to deal with either one in self-defense if that need should ever arise.
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