City here, tries to find a way to create a "gotcha" law.

City here, tries to find a way to create a "gotcha" law.

This is a discussion on City here, tries to find a way to create a "gotcha" law. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The State's largest city, ask for an AG opinion on some of the state preemptions, etc. and boundaries of the banning "open carry" . Their ...

Results 1 to 13 of 13
Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By Speculator
  • 1 Post By livewire

Thread: City here, tries to find a way to create a "gotcha" law.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,818

    City here, tries to find a way to create a "gotcha" law.

    The State's largest city, ask for an AG opinion on some of the state preemptions, etc. and boundaries of the banning "open carry" .

    Their logic was.... that open carry included having a gun within your reach within a vehicle, and in essence.... included having a loaded gun in the trunk of a car while on any property open to the public, because the person was in control of the vehicle and it was 'accessible' to them. So, since "open carry" can be banned by cities, this would qualify as "open carry" and accessible to the driver... and therefore they could make it illegal.

    Where they were going was ; then any person with a CC permit who removed their gun and put it in their trunk (due to city buildings being "posted" against CC carry) would be illegally "open carrying". They were going to try to create a "gotcha law" in that, "oh now, you are legally considered open carrying (by putting the gun in your trunk or leaving it in your car) ... so now you are illegal" ... so we gotcha. They cannot ban public 'areas' from CC, only "buildings", but that gives them a "gotcha" law.

    Talk about "twisting " the laws to fit their agendas.... GEEEEZ.

    However, our legislature really did good when they changed the laws, making it where the law preempted any city ordinances , etc. when it came to conceal carry, and to prevent cities from doing this kind of garbage.

    So, the AG's opinion told them, "YES" you can make that illegal, but NOT if the person is a licensed CC person as that is preempted by the State law. And, in essence (which many have not caught on to but we had) they cannot regulate any of that on a CC person, which in translation means.... A CC licensed person is "legal" to open carry on public property and the city is preempted from regulating it or making it illegal if the person has a CC license.

    I'm amazed how far , the anti's in some places will go to try to twist the laws, to accomplish their agendas.

    The battle, is never over.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."


  2. #2
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Ever vigilance brother. Always!

    You can not afford to not pay attention to what they are up to anymore. We've done that for way too long and now look at what we've got.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  3. #3
    Member Array Speculator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    223
    I guess people feel that there is so much violence that you need 'pile on' laws for anyone who uses a 'firing solution', no matter how grave the extreme, no matter how egregious the encounter. They want a world like the one in 'Wall-E' with fat people in float cars who do nothing but eat and drink and absorb entertainment.

    YES, violence is not the answer. But a SD situation uses it as a REPLY not an answer to a GE event (Gravest Extreme).
    wmhawth likes this.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,164
    Sorry...I forgot that not everywhere has a state law on the books preempting cities from making their own, more stringent firearms laws than the State's laws. They have still tried, but our state courts have upheld that cities may not make public buildings off-limits...may not ban open carry, etc. (State laws here, do, however, make clear that a weapon carried openly is still considered concealed in a vehicle...so unless you have a carry permit, that's a felony).
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this
    Then check out my blog! www.BodyByMcDonalds.com

    Cupcake - 100 pound loser, adventurer, Ironman Triathlete.

  5. #5
    Moderator
    Array gasmitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    10,615
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    The State's largest city, ask for an AG opinion on some of the state preemptions, etc. and boundaries of the banning "open carry" .

    Their logic was.... that open carry included having a gun within your reach within a vehicle, and in essence.... included having a loaded gun in the trunk of a car while on any property open to the public, because the person was in control of the vehicle and it was 'accessible' to them. So, since "open carry" can be banned by cities, this would qualify as "open carry" and accessible to the driver... and therefore they could make it illegal.

    Where they were going was ; then any person with a CC permit who removed their gun and put it in their trunk (due to city buildings being "posted" against CC carry) would be illegally "open carrying". They were going to try to create a "gotcha law" in that, "oh now, you are legally considered open carrying (by putting the gun in your trunk or leaving it in your car) ... so now you are illegal" ... so we gotcha. They cannot ban public 'areas' from CC, only "buildings", but that gives them a "gotcha" law.

    Talk about "twisting " the laws to fit their agendas.... GEEEEZ.

    However, our legislature really did good when they changed the laws, making it where the law preempted any city ordinances , etc. when it came to conceal carry, and to prevent cities from doing this kind of garbage.

    So, the AG's opinion told them, "YES" you can make that illegal, but NOT if the person is a licensed CC person as that is preempted by the State law. And, in essence (which many have not caught on to but we had) they cannot regulate any of that on a CC person, which in translation means.... A CC licensed person is "legal" to open carry on public property and the city is preempted from regulating it or making it illegal if the person has a CC license.

    I'm amazed how far , the anti's in some places will go to try to twist the laws, to accomplish their agendas.

    The battle, is never over.
    Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom - Thomas Jefferson.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wyoming, DE
    Posts
    11,111
    Let's see, a gun is sometimes used in a murder, therefore , every person with a gun is a prospective murder, or a prospective felon, and therefore is banned from owning a gun! Do you think we could get this one passed?
    Hiram25
    You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
    Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
    dukalmighty & Pure Kustom Black Ops Pro "Trooper" Holsters, DE CCDW and LEOSA Permits, Vietnam Vet 68-69 Pleiku

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    2,052
    I never understood "preemption" that only affects CC... Oregon is the same way.


    Here's our preemption law, IMHO, the best I've seen:

    RCW 9.41.290: State preemption.


    The state of Washington hereby fully occupies and preempts the entire field of firearms regulation within the boundaries of the state, including the registration, licensing, possession, purchase, sale, acquisition, transfer, discharge, and transportation of firearms, or any other element relating to firearms or parts thereof, including ammunition and reloader components. Cities, towns, and counties or other municipalities may enact only those laws and ordinances relating to firearms that are specifically authorized by state law, as in RCW 9.41.300, and are consistent with this chapter. Such local ordinances shall have the same penalty as provided for by state law. Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistent with, more restrictive than, or exceed the requirements of state law shall not be enacted and are preempted and repealed, regardless of the nature of the code, charter, or home rule status of such city, town, county, or municipality.
    The City of Seattle, one of the most hippie liberal cities in the nation, tried to enact a ban on guns and parks, but it has been overwhelmingly rejected by the courts under the preemption ban. The same ordinance banned guns in city-owned buildings (many of the high-rises in town), which the City has no right to do according to the law.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  8. #8
    New Member Array bones357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Boerne
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    The State's largest city, ask for an AG opinion on some of the state preemptions, etc. and boundaries of the banning "open carry" .

    Their logic was.... that open carry included having a gun within your reach within a vehicle, and in essence.... included having a loaded gun in the trunk of a car while on any property open to the public, because the person was in control of the vehicle and it was 'accessible' to them. So, since "open carry" can be banned by cities, this would qualify as "open carry" and accessible to the driver... and therefore they could make it illegal.

    Where they were going was ; then any person with a CC permit who removed their gun and put it in their trunk (due to city buildings being "posted" against CC carry) would be illegally "open carrying". They were going to try to create a "gotcha law" in that, "oh now, you are legally considered open carrying (by putting the gun in your trunk or leaving it in your car) ... so now you are illegal" ... so we gotcha. They cannot ban public 'areas' from CC, only "buildings", but that gives them a "gotcha" law.

    Talk about "twisting " the laws to fit their agendas.... GEEEEZ.

    However, our legislature really did good when they changed the laws, making it where the law preempted any city ordinances , etc. when it came to conceal carry, and to prevent cities from doing this kind of garbage.

    So, the AG's opinion told them, "YES" you can make that illegal, but NOT if the person is a licensed CC person as that is preempted by the State law. And, in essence (which many have not caught on to but we had) they cannot regulate any of that on a CC person, which in translation means.... A CC licensed person is "legal" to open carry on public property and the city is preempted from regulating it or making it illegal if the person has a CC license.

    I'm amazed how far , the anti's in some places will go to try to twist the laws, to accomplish their agendas.

    The battle, is never over.
    ...Federal law allows the transport of a personally owned firearm in a vehicle. Would not be enforceable anyways...

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    2,052
    Quote Originally Posted by bones357 View Post
    ...Federal law allows the transport of a personally owned firearm in a vehicle. Would not be enforceable anyways...
    That depends on how fine a like you draw with the 'letter/spirit' analysis. If an AG wants something to be illegal, he can. Now, it's up to the courts to slap the AG's hand, and fortunately, in this case they did.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  10. #10
    New Member Array bones357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Boerne
    Posts
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Now, it's up to the courts to slap the AG's hand, and fortunately, in this case they did.
    Noted. AND true. Thankful the courts sniffed this out as well.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Near the Black Hills of SD
    Posts
    1,054
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    Let's see, a gun is sometimes used in a murder, therefore , every person with a gun is a prospective murder, or a prospective felon, and therefore is banned from owning a gun! Do you think we could get this one passed?
    So every male in the country should be locked up as potential rapist? That's the logic they would use.
    ~~~~~
    The only common sense gun legislation was written about 224 years ago.

    I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    2,052
    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post
    So every male in the country should be locked up as potential rapist? That's the logic they would use.
    That reminds me of the old joke :)

    A couple went on vacation to a fishing resort up north. The husband liked to fish at the crack of dawn; the wife preferred to read. One morning the husband returned after several hours of fishing and decided to take a short nap. The wife decided to take the boat out. She was not familiar with the lake so she rowed out, anchored the boat, and started reading her book.

    Along comes the sheriff in his boat, pulls up alongside and says, "Good morning, Ma'am. What are you doing?"

    "Reading my book," she replies as she thinks to herself, "Is this guy blind or what?"

    "You're in a restricted fishing area," he informs her.

    "But, Officer, I'm not fishing. Can't you see that?"

    "But you have all this equipment, Ma'am. I'll have to take you in and write you up."

    "If you do that, I will charge you with rape," snaps the irate woman.

    "I didn't even touch you," grouses the sheriff.

    "Yes, that's true ... but you have all the equipment ..."
    Dadsnugun likes this.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Dadsnugun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    The state formerly known as Colorado
    Posts
    698
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    Let's see, a gun is sometimes used in a murder, therefore , every person with a gun is a prospective murder, or a prospective felon, and therefore is banned from owning a gun! Do you think we could get this one passed?
    Someone has no doubt tried...and will, undoubtedly, try again...
    Never pick a fight with an old man...If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you - John Steinbeck
    Come to Colorado...the governor is loopy
    .................................................. .................................................. ......................They Live

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

can you carry a gun in your car in kansas
,

open carry

,
oregon state rcw transport of shotgun vehicle -wa
Click on a term to search for related topics.