Texas banning guns-Chicago Ok'ing guns outside the home? - Page 3

Texas banning guns-Chicago Ok'ing guns outside the home?

This is a discussion on Texas banning guns-Chicago Ok'ing guns outside the home? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Back when I was 18, it was legal for me to drink, hard liquor, when I truned 21 they made it legal for 19 year ...

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Thread: Texas banning guns-Chicago Ok'ing guns outside the home?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Back when I was 18, it was legal for me to drink, hard liquor, when I truned 21 they made it legal for 19 year olds to drink beer. A halfway reversal of the law... Now it's 21 for any alcohol. Somewhere in there they made the voting age 18, the same age at which you could join (or be drafted) into the armed forces (without parental permission, IIRC).

    Back then, If you were in the military, you could marry and drink, no matter your age. Inconsistencies don't work. Inconsistent laws work less...

    If you want to make the age of majority 21, fine. But that should then be the age at which you can join the armed forces, and vote.

    I agree that 18- 21 year olds are not yet as mature as they could be... I agree that their brains are not at their maximum growth.

    But, if you must register for selective service at 18 (and you must, still), you should be granted ALL the rights of majority.

    I would argue that most of our 18 year olds are not as educated as we were 30 some years ago... I would argue that many of them are not nearly as mature as we were at 18. But this is not the place for such arguments.

    If it is okay for us to send 18 year olds to war (by their own choice), and we are to assume they KNOW what it means to swear the oath to protect the Constitution of the United States from enemies foreign and domestic; they must then be wise enough to know what it means to defend ones self in the gravest extreme, whether they choose to do either, or not.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Back when I was 18, it was legal for me to drink, hard liquor, when I truned 21 they made it legal for 19 year olds to drink beer. A halfway reversal of the law... Now it's 21 for any alcohol. Somewhere in there they made the voting age 18, the same age at which you could join (or be drafted) into the armed forces (without parental permission, IIRC).

    Back then, If you were in the military, you could marry and drink, no matter your age. Inconsistencies don't work. Inconsistent laws work less...

    If you want to make the age of majority 21, fine. But that should then be the age at which you can join the armed forces, and vote.

    I agree that 18- 21 year olds are not yet as mature as they could be... I agree that their brains are not at their maximum growth.

    But, if you must register for selective service at 18 (and you must, still), you should be granted ALL the rights of majority.

    I would argue that most of our 18 year olds are not as educated as we were 30 some years ago... I would argue that many of them are not nearly as mature as we were at 18. But this is not the place for such arguments.

    If it is okay for us to send 18 year olds to war (by their own choice), and we are to assume they KNOW what it means to swear the oath to protect the Constitution of the United States from enemies foreign and domestic; they must then be wise enough to know what it means to defend ones self in the gravest extreme, whether they choose to do either, or not..
    I agree with you that consistency is quite important and if it is 18 then maybe it should be 18 for everything; and if it is 21, then maybe it should be 21 for everything including voluntary enlistments and conscription, if it ever happens again.
    And I would personally be willing to split the difference at 20; end of teen age years.

    I put your last statement in bold but I don't agree with it. There is a huge difference between following orders and being led and making one's own decisions in a fully independent manner with no leadership, no orders, just one's judgment about a situation.

    And, the real judgment involves staying out of a situation in the first place. I've read two books recently, both recommended by others on this site which I wish could be introduced in the Junior and Senior years of HS somehow. The Gift of Fear, and
    "Little Black Book of Violence: what every young man needs to know about fighting."

    Our world would be a safer place if the messages in these two books could be conveyed. Sadly, I think a large number of teens, even if somehow presented with the messages, would blow them off as garbage not worthy of their time.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I agree with you that consistency is quite important and if it is 18 then maybe it should be 18 for everything; and if it is 21, then maybe it should be 21 for everything including voluntary enlistments and conscription, if it ever happens again.
    And I would personally be willing to split the difference at 20; end of teen age years.

    I put your last statement in bold but I don't agree with it. There is a huge difference between following orders and being led and making one's own decisions in a fully independent manner with no leadership, no orders, just one's judgment about a situation.

    And, the real judgment involves staying out of a situation in the first place. I've read two books recently, both recommended by others on this site which I wish could be introduced in the Junior and Senior years of HS somehow. The Gift of Fear, and
    "Little Black Book of Violence: what every young man needs to know about fighting."

    Our world would be a safer place if the messages in these two books could be conveyed. Sadly, I think a large number of teens, even if somehow presented with the messages, would blow them off as garbage not worthy of their time.
    Yes, there is a difference between folloiwng orders and fully independent decisions. However, If one is old enough (mature enough?) to make a fully independent decision to join our military, and thus, follow orders (potentially laying their lives down in the process, or IOW, cashing a check we can't even write anymore), they are old enough and mature enough to make a fully independent decision to carry a weapon and use it if need be.

    In both cases, the consequences of those decisions will rest upon them as adults.
    Rats!
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    I suppose

  4. #34
    Member Array Whitebrad25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    Nope. http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/txsl.pdf

    I can't find anything anywhere that says you have to be older than 18 to possess a firearm in Texas, even a handgun. Long guns, I know for sure is 18. As far as handguns...you just can't buy them from an FFL dealer if you're under 21. You could do a face to face sale and it would be legal, as well as buying the ammo since there is no prohibition on possession, just on FFLs selling to you.
    By possession we are both meaning carrying? I just don't see it.

  5. #35
    Member Array Whitebrad25's Avatar
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    The main thing here to consider is that though the numbers seem arbitrary, as stated, they are not only the simplest way to actually make uniform law applicable, but they also CONFORM to the norms of society. An example that has been brought up when others mention that such and such was legal/illegal when they grew up. People change, society changes, and most importantly, norms change. I see no issue with law that changes to rival norms of our society. Sometimes eliminating those old laws are difficult, I.E. the laws that are ridiculous and make no sense (like camals being owned after certain times in states and just weird laws of the like).

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebrad25 View Post
    By possession we are both meaning carrying? I just don't see it.
    No. By possession I mean possession. As in, for 3 years you are allowed to possess a handgun in TX (and most other states) but not carry it unless you're in the military. That is arbitrary and unjustified and I think it should be struck down, along with the 1968 GCA that arbitrarily sets 21 as the age to purchase a handgun and ammo from a FFL dealer.

  7. #37
    Member Array Whitebrad25's Avatar
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    See, possession means one is in the possession of said item....inside the home, this is fine, so when we discuss possession; I am trying to apply it a scenario and the only issue I see with -21 and possessing a firearm is outside of his/her home.....which would also lead me to assume this 'possession' is involving the carry of said firearm. I get what you mean but I was in another ball game, I believe.
    Last edited by Whitebrad25; January 23rd, 2012 at 03:33 PM.

  8. #38
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    Let's face it, Heller is not a resounding affirmation of our Second Amendment rights. Judge Cummings decision is based on the Heller decision. SCOTUS ruled the states can regulate guns.

    In his decision, Cummings ruled that the Second Amendment — the right to bear arms — "does not confer a right that extends beyond the home." He noted that under current law, Texans can possess guns in their homes without a state license.

    Cummings noted in his ruling that a 2008 decision by the U.S. Supreme Court underscored that the Second Amendment right to bear arms "was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose."

    Texas' licensing law "does not burden the fundamental right to keep and bear arms," Cummings wrote.
    BTW: Judge Cummings was appointed to the federal bench by Ronald Reagan.
    Last edited by Sig 210; January 23rd, 2012 at 10:14 PM.
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  9. #39
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Just an old 1SG's view. Just because an 18 year old puts on a uniform. That does not mean they should be carrying a hand gun around in public or drinking. 18 year old soldiers still have a bit of growing up to do. The kind of trouble they can get them self in will end their life faster than any war.
    I find the Texas Judges words troubling .
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  10. #40
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    Actually all this means is that SCOTUS needs to stop being political about the 2nd amendment and make a ruling on it. From there the only issue would be whether the laws states come up with are in concert with the 2nd amendment.

    OOOOPS...may bad...that makes too much sense...
    ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED...until --> Y O U <-- verify. Shoot straight, Be safe!!!

  11. #41
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    When i was in highschool...we had guns in our gunracks in our pickups....windows rolled down in the summer & the doors unlocked...and i gradeated in 78 ....no school officials had a stroke....none of us kids shot anyone...nobody flipped out...it was a non issue...i miss those days.....

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