...they can lie to us???
say it ain't so
This is a discussion on Virginia Rant within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; In part, the Virginia Codes regarding firearms states....... "Pursuant to §18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia, resident concealed handgun permits are issued by the circuit ...
In part, the Virginia Codes regarding firearms states.......
"Pursuant to §18.2-308 of the Code of Virginia, resident concealed handgun permits are issued by the circuit court of the jurisdiction in which the applicant resides, and nonresident concealed handgun permits are issued by the Virginia State Police.
As of July 1, 2010, a concealed handgun permit is not necessary when carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel."
Now, I have been asked by a student whether a person that does NOT have a CCW can put his/her pistol in the glove compartment of his/her vehicle.
I called five different police stations for clarification and got five different answers.
One stated that you could carry the pistol unconcealed on the dashboard or passenger seat as long as you did not venture into a city with a population of more that 10,000.
Another said that said person could not carry a loaded firearm in the car at all.
One said that you would have to take the container to a State Police Barracks and have it O.K.ed as a legal container.
Another said that the glovebox is not a container.
The Commonwealth Attorney's office referred me to the State Police Who referred me to the Circuit Court who refered me back to the Commonwealth Attorney.
A lawyer agrees with me that one CAN place it into the glovebox and that since the LEOs don't like that law they will lie through their teeth to get you to abandon your rights under the law.
COME ON FOLKS! SOMEBODY TAKE RESPOSIBILITY AND 'SPLAIN THINGS.
...they can lie to us???
say it ain't so
In the same year (2010), two bills passed the Commonwealth's Legislature -- one required a locked container or compartment; the other one required a secured container or compartment.
The Governor signed into law only the bill allowing a secured container or compartment.
IMHO, that legislative history establishes that you and your lawyer are correct that a firearm CAN place it in an unlocked glovebox w/o having a CHP -- as "locked" was rejected by the Governor. I know of no Virginia court cases which have held otherwise.
As LEOs deal with a very thick book of laws, they often do not know all the details of those laws that they do not have to cite regularly. However, they can typically look up a code section on their computer (or have dispatch look it up), if you politely point out a statute reference. Hence, I carry a number of key RKBA citations in my vehicles.
I have had LEOs thank me for such information -- as no one likes having their mistakes pointed out in front of a Judge.
If you PM me the five police stations, I will follow up on this issue.
If you know of any court cases that found a "locked" container or compartment is required, I will look into having a more exacting bill introduced. However, Virginia is a "if it ain't broke don't try to fix it" common-law / case law Commonwealth. The one question the Legislature always ask (when you testify for a new law) is for examples of the actual problem that is being addressed.
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro
Thank you so much Dave for jumping in and answering. Once again, thank you for all that you do. You've helped me out on a couple of my local issues. Super job Dave!
Glock 26 XD9sc
Ruger SR9c Ruger LCP
Actually the Governor suggested replacing the word "locked" with the word "secured." Problem is, they never defined the word "secured" so it's left up to the LEO on the scene to figure out, which given that we're talking about humans, will sooner or later lead to misinterpretations of the law. The AG recently suggested (seen on VCDL video) that the Governor should have asked the AG before throwing the word "secured" into the mix without clarification.
As for answering a student's question, I'd reference them to the law and tell them it says what it says. Either the student (best idea) or you (are you ready for vicarious liability?) get a paid legal opinion, or better yet (at everyone's peril) get your Delegate to request an official opinion from the AG.
BTW... Don't ask LEOs for legal advice, even if they are the ones enforcing the law. It's free advice, and you get what you pay for.
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
Thanks all for your input.
Dave H...will send you specifics on the morrow.