PilotOnline.com -- Va. Legislature loads up on gun-rights initiatives w/ poll

This is a discussion on PilotOnline.com -- Va. Legislature loads up on gun-rights initiatives w/ poll within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Va. Legislature loads up on gun-rights initiatives | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com ** Va. Legislature loads up on gun-rights initiatives By Bill Sizemore The Virginian-Pilot © ...

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  1. #1
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    PilotOnline.com -- Va. Legislature loads up on gun-rights initiatives w/ poll

    Va. Legislature loads up on gun-rights initiatives | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

    **
    Va. Legislature loads up on gun-rights initiatives

    By Bill Sizemore

    The Virginian-Pilot
    © February 6, 2012

    RICHMOND

    Gun-rights advocates are poised to win a marquee victory in the Virginia General Assembly, perhaps as early as today, with the potential repeal of the state’s one-handgun-a-month limit.

    SNIP

    That, however, is only the beginning.

    SNIP

    Among the measures awaiting consideration is HB139, submitted by Del. Mark Cole, R-Spotsylvania County, which would allow any lawful owner of a firearm to carry it concealed without a permit.

    SNIP
    **

    Philip quoted.

    Poll “Should the General Assembly overturn the one-handgun-a-month law?” We are barely winning.


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    Thumbs down Article reprinted in Anti-RKBA _Roanoke Times_ and a thread is running...

    on Anti-RKBA Dan Casey's blog.

    http://tinyurl.com/7kxfhls


    **
    Pick your favorite General Assembly gun bill!

    As you may have read in The Roanoke Times this morning, there is a bumper crop of gun bills winding through the legislative machinery in Richmond.

    The good news is, no lawmaker has gotten asinine enough ó yet, at least ó to put in a bill requiring that all citizens be armed at all times. But itís likely thatís only because the movement to liberalize gun laws proceeds incrementally, and we havenít reached that point yet.

    To get there, we have to adopt some other asinine measures first. Such as 180-degree turns to previously adopted laws.

    SNIP

    Remember all the hoopla youíve heard over the years about concealed carry permits, and how the state should grant them to trained, law-abiding, sane individuals who are not habitual drunkards or dope fiends? Virginia currently does that (except they donít have to be meaningfully trained any longer).

    SNIP
    **
    ----

    My comment:

    **
    Pick your favorite General Assembly gun bill?

    Constitutional Carry.

    Put 2A on the same level as the rest of the BoR.

    Comment by Dave Hicks ó February 6, 2012 @ 12:18 pm
    **

    Join in. Warning -- you might need to duct tape your head together to save your monitor once the amen corner anties start posting.
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    Post Dan's reply & my response

    Dan's reply:
    **
    Dave Hicks,
    Isn’t your argument actually with Heller, the Supreme Court’s 5-4 ruling in which Scalia wrote that governments may regulate certain aspect of firearms ownership?

    Comment by Dan Casey — February 6, 2012 @ 12:31 pm
    **

    My response to Dan:
    **
    Not at all, Dan.

    The governments regulate certain aspect of all of the Bill of Rights.

    However, the restrictions to 1A et al are not prior-restraints. They don’t tape your mouth shut as a condition of entering into crowded public place, because you might yell “fire.” The limits on 1A are post-violation penalties, either criminal or civil.

    There are already many similar post-violation restrictions/penalties, either criminal or civil, on the law books — e.g., murder, maiming, armed robbery, etc. on the criminal side ; wrongful death etc on the civil side.

    What we need to focus on is removing the prior-restraints on the RKBA, IMHO. An analogy between the 2A and the rest of the BoR might be valid, once the 2A is actually on a par with the the rest of the BoR. If you really want to see them as the same, please work to remove the prior-restraints on the RKBA.

    For the record, I’m on the side of “There should be no prior restraints on ANY constitutional Right — including the RKBA and to defend yourself with a firearm. NO constitutionally protected rights should even require a permit or license or training or proficiency test to exercise.”

    FWWIW, I do agree that training should be encouraged — maybe even provided in public school. After all the purpose of education is to prepare one for living as free citizens and to exercise one freedoms wisely.

    Apply all the anti-freedom / pro-permit or license or pro-required-training or pro-required-proficiency test to any other constitutionally protected rights and it becomes clear why they don’t fly.

    Do you support a government-issued permit (for a fee) or license or a government designed/required training or government designed/required proficiency-test to exercise religion? Yeah, Right!!

    A government-issued permit or license (for a fee) or license or a government designed/required training or government designed/required proficiency-test to exercise the right of (free???) speech? Yeah, Right!!

    A government-issued permit or license (for a fee) or license or a government designed/required training or government designed/required proficiency-test to exercise the right of a (free???) press? Yeah, Right!!

    A government-issued permit or license (for a fee) or license or a government designed/required training or government designed/required proficiency-test before you can assemble, or petition the Government for a redress of grievances? Yeah, Right!!

    Etc. Etc.

    Tell me why prior-restraints of a government-issued permit or license (for a fee) or license or a government designed/required training or government designed/required proficiency-test applies to one but not the rest?

    Comment by Dave Hicks — February 6, 2012 @ 12:53 pm
    **

    Feel fee to join in.
    Last edited by DaveH; February 6th, 2012 at 07:54 PM. Reason: typo / proofo
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    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    The Senate just passed the repeal of One Handgun a Month by 21 to 19!

    The House had already passed it. The Governor said he would sign such a bill, so barring something truly bizarre happening, the One Handgun a Month repeal will go on to become law in the next month or so and will become effective on July 1st.

    Eagleks likes this.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    Nice move VA...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    NRA Life Member[/B]

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    Long, long over due.

    I heard some idiot from the VA Pilot on NPR this afternoon talking about the pending legislation. What a fool. Where do these people come from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctr View Post
    Long, long over due.

    I heard some idiot from the VA Pilot on NPR this afternoon talking about the pending legislation. What a fool. Where do these people come from?


    Yup Anti-gun National People's Radio anchor Robert Siegel and EXTREMELY ANTI-GUN The Virginian-Pilot reporter Bill Sizemore are something else.



    Check out:

    Virginia Votes To Repeal Restricted Gun Buying Law : NPR

    NPR Media Player




    ***** WARNING *****

    Duct tapping or other precautions to keep your head from exploding are recommended.



    ***** WARNING *****
    Μολὼν λαβέ

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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    A government-issued permit or license (for a fee) or license or a government designed/required training or government designed/required proficiency-test to exercise the right of a (free???) press?.

    You may have something there

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    As usual Dan shows his ignorance when it comes to the 2A.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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    God Bless the Great Commonwealth of Virginia!!

    "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands. " Col. Jeff Cooper

    Proud member NRA, VCDL, USPSA, IDPA & DADD ( if you have daughters, you understand )

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    Once these proposals become legislation, it's time we also allow concealed carry of guns in places of religious workship. I am sick and tired of going to church and having to leave my gun in the car. Because of that, I only go to church once a month.

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    Re: #11

    LIS > Code of Virginia > 18.2-283

    **
    ß 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

    If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a http://tinyurl.com/2sd4nxwhile a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

    **

    -----

    See: Cuccinelli says gun in worship service permissible | Richmond Times-Dispatch

    Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has formally ruled that self-defense is considered "good and sufficient reason" for the lawful carry of handguns into a church during a service! (Good and sufficient reason isn't needed at other times.) The ruling also stated that churches, as private property, can ban or restrict such carry (which is consistent with Virginia law and would make for a trespass charge if violated).

    Yes, this is an Attorney General's opinion. Although it carries a lot of weight, but is not law and is NOT a GUARANTEE that a judge will agree.

    However IMHO, this should pretty much settle the matter.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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    Distinguished Member Array Jason Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Re: #11

    LIS > Code of Virginia > 18.2-283

    **
    ß 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

    If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a http://tinyurl.com/2sd4nxwhile a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

    **

    -----

    See: Cuccinelli says gun in worship service permissible | Richmond Times-Dispatch

    Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has formally ruled that self-defense is considered "good and sufficient reason" for the lawful carry of handguns into a church during a service! (Good and sufficient reason isn't needed at other times.) The ruling also stated that churches, as private property, can ban or restrict such carry (which is consistent with Virginia law and would make for a trespass charge if violated).

    Yes, this is an Attorney General's opinion. Although it carries a lot of weight, but is not law and is NOT a GUARANTEE that a judge will agree.

    However IMHO, this should pretty much settle the matter.
    I was told from the video that I viewed from the concealed carry online class from VA Concealed Carry Institute LLC that carrying in church is not allowed. You must have permission from the clergy to be able to conceal carry. Otherwise, it is a violation of the state law and can get you arrested if spotted by an off-duty cop. Not assuming and taking chances until I gets a valid clarification from a criminal attorney. An attorney general's opinion is just an opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Storm View Post
    You must have permission from the clergy to be able to conceal carry.
    IMHO, it's just like any other private property.

    No "mother may I required."
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    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  16. #15
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    According to the VA Gun Owners Guide, churches or places of worship are considered prohibited places under VA law, unless allowed by the religious staff or the head of the religious place of worship. They are not in the same category as private property. Not going to risk getting thrown in jail if caught by some nosy cop or some hoplophobic religious do gooder. All I can do is to obey the law under protest, which is to go only once a month and leave 15 min. early before the service is over so that I can discreetly re-arm inside the car without too many people around. To also avoid unwarranted attention when disarming inside my car, I unholster my gun and place it in a planner holster, which is then locked up and then stored in the car's trunk. When I rearm, the steps are the opposite. Personally, I still feel the the term "good and sufficient reason" needs to be clarified with self-defense as one of them and put into law rather than just make it just an opinion of some public official. Otherwise, it is vague and open to interpretation. Like the saying goes, assumptions are the mother of all mistakes.

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