Miami Herald :New law gives too many people a license to kill.

This is a discussion on Miami Herald :New law gives too many people a license to kill. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Sorry for the long post. This article appeared in the Miami Herald this morning and I was incensed. I posted my feelings in my Club's ...

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Thread: Miami Herald :New law gives too many people a license to kill.

  1. #1
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    Angry Miami Herald :New law gives too many people a license to kill.

    Sorry for the long post. This article appeared in the Miami Herald this morning and I was incensed. I posted my feelings in my Club's website but I decided to share it here.

    New law gives too many people a license to kill
    BY FRED GRIMM
    fgrimm@MiamiHerald.com

    The legal defense of Red Rock and Yellow Man, a couple of feuding Liberty City street thugs up on murder charges, has been bolstered by 62 members of the Florida House of Representatives and 28 state senators.

    Police say a stray bullet from a July 1 shootout between Damon ''Red Rock'' Darling and Leroy ''Yellow Man'' LaRose, both with long rap sheets, killed 9-year-old Sherdavia Jenkins. But police and prosecutors worry that the ''Stand Your Ground'' law passed in 2005 with 90 sponsors and overwhelming support in both houses of the Florida Legislature, has complicated their case against the two men.

    The law, pushed through the Legislature in Florida (and 14 other states) by the National Rifle Association, has broadened the legal definition of self-defense, no longer requiring the use of deadly force only as a last resort. A person, feeling threatened, ``has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force.''

    This kind of macho legislation gets political testosterone churning. Supporters envisioned a beleaguered suburban soccer dad fending off a tattooed ex-con with a righteous hail of bullets. The law prohibits police from detaining or arresting a suspect in a self-defense case without clear evidence of malice. Red Rock and Yellow Man are grateful.

    ''Unfortunately, you can't write a law that says only good citizens can use deadly force to protect themselves,'' said Jay Plotkin, chief assistant state attorney in the Fourth Judicial District, which includes Jacksonville, another Florida city beset with a murder epidemic. ``If a bad guy is defending himself against another bad guy, the law applies to him, too.''

    DEFENSE TOOL

    In Florida's tough urban neighborhoods, where witnesses to shootings are shy and convictions are elusive, the Stand Your Ground law has quickly become another complicating factor -- another tool for defense lawyers. When the smoke clears, gang-bangers can now evoke the magic words: ``I had a reasonable fear I was going to be killed or suffer great bodily harm.''

    But the effect of the new law has reached beyond the mean streets of Miami and Jacksonville. Needless killings erupting out of neighborhood disputes in middle-class suburbs now go in the books as self-defense.

    In March, Michael Frazzini was gunned down in his mother's backyard in North Fort Myers while holding a 14-inch miniature baseball bat and a video camera. He had been hiding in the bushes hoping to catch the vandal who had been harassing his mother. Instead, a neighbor from the adjoining backyard, with a pistol, and his 22-year-old son (a prime suspect in the vandalism, presently in jail for stealing his father's guns) confronted Frazzini. The father killed him. He told police that Frazzini was going after his son. He said he was afraid.

    STANDING HIS GROUND?

    He wasn't charged. He had merely stood his ground.

    In June, unarmed Jason Rosenbloom was shot during an argument in Clearwater with his next-door neighbor. He was shot just outside the neighbor's front door. The neighbor said he was afraid.

    ''This law is pretty scary,'' said Doreen Rosenbloom, Jason's mother. ''All you have to do is say you feel threatened, and you can shoot someone and get away with it,'' she said Wednesday. ``My son walks with a cane. He has a scar down the middle of his chest. He has long-term injuries. And the man who shot him will go unpunished.''

    In June, The Orlando Sentinel examined 13 Central Florida cases involving the use of deadly force in self-defense since the law went into effect in October. Six of the alleged aggressors were killed. Four were wounded. All but one of the 10 people shot were unarmed.

    Red Rock and Yellow Man aren't the only shooters lately who stood their ground
    ---------------------
    Here starts my first post.

    The version of Florida's Castle Doctrine continues to be attacked, nothing new there. In today's Herald Fred Grimm writes:

    Police say a stray bullet from a July 1 shootout between Damon ''Red Rock'' Darling and Leroy ''Yellow Man'' LaRose, both with long rap sheets, killed 9-year-old Sherdavia Jenkins. But police and prosecutors worry that the ''Stand Your Ground'' law passed in 2005 with 90 sponsors and overwhelming support in both houses of the Florida Legislature, has complicated their case against the two men.
    Now, according to Florida Statutes 776.013 2-c:
    2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:

    (c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity;
    I am not a legal scholar or even somebody slightly attuned with the law but if both "gentlemen" are felons, wouldn't having possesion of a firearm be considered an unlawful activity?

    And if so how come we read this in the same column:
    ''Unfortunately, you can't write a law that says only good citizens can use deadly force to protect themselves,'' said Jay Plotkin, chief assistant state attorney in the Fourth Judicial District, which includes Jacksonville, another Florida city beset with a murder epidemic. ``If a bad guy is defending himself against another bad guy, the law applies to him, too.''
    Is my understanding of the law wrong?

    I continue in another post:

    And the plot thickens.....

    From the same article:
    In March, Michael Frazzini was gunned down in his mother's backyard in North Fort Myers while holding a 14-inch miniature baseball bat and a video camera. He had been hiding in the bushes hoping to catch the vandal who had been harassing his mother. Instead, a neighbor from the adjoining backyard, with a pistol, and his 22-year-old son (a prime suspect in the vandalism, presently in jail for stealing his father's guns) confronted Frazzini. The father killed him. He told police that Frazzini was going after his son. He said he was afraid.
    Now, me being the suspicious SOB that I am, decided to check a bit further into this alleged abortion of justice. A quick Google search gives us the following:
    LEE COUNTY: Michael Frazzini died Monday night after a homeowner shot him in North Fort Myers after he was discovered in the homeowner's backyard wearing a mask and gloves. The Lee County Sheriff's Office is still investigating to verify the shooting was in self-defense, but many say it wasn't. Funeral services for Frazzini will be held this weekend.

    In Michael Frazzini's obituary, there are four long paragraphs describing a decorated military career that included five tours, a family man who was raising a one and three year old with his wife and a man who is survived by an extensive family, including his parents and his grandfather.

    News of Frazzini's death has been hard on those who knew him best.

    According to the Lee County Sheriff's Office's report, Frazzini was in the back yard of a home on Camellia in North Fort Myers wearing a camouflage mask and olive colored gloves.
    http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readar...id=6504&z=3&p=
    It might be a normal thing in Mr. Grimm's Neighborhood, but in this neck of the woods somebody wearing a mask and gloves hidding in the bushes is kinda suspicious.

    And the last post

    Instead, a neighbor from the adjoining backyard, with a pistol, and his 22-year-old son (a prime suspect in the vandalism, presently in jail for stealing his father's guns)
    Guilt & Invalidation of Act by Association ? If so, let's see the other "victim" that Mr. Grimm mentions.

    CLEARWATER – Deputies are investigating a neighborhood dispute that resulted in a shooting Monday.

    Deputies were dispatched to 1995 Meadow Drive after receiving a call from the victim’s wife, reporting her husband had been shot by their neighbor, reports said.

    Kenneth Allen told deputies he arrived at his residence about 4:30 p.m., and he heard loud music coming from the residence of his neighbor, Jason Rosenbloom.

    Shortly after entering his home, Allen reported that Rosenbloom banged on his front door. Allen went to the door and exchanged words with Rosenbloom.

    Allen told deputies he went to a room and retrieved a 9mm semi-automatic handgun, returned to the front door and opened the door. Rosenbloom then came towards Allen in what Allen told deputies was a threatening manner, reports said.

    Allen then told deputies he fired two rounds at Rosenbloom as he began to enter his residence. According to Allen, Rosenbloom fell to the ground after being shot, then got up and walked to his home.
    http://www.tbnweekly.com/archives/index.php and do a search for Jason Rosenbloom

    Joshua Paul Rosenbloom, brother of the above-mentioned victim was shot by police three days later while attacking them weilding a sword given by his brother Jason. http://netra.sptimes.com/2006/06/24/...rs__shoo.shtml

    Now, I am not going to do the intellectually dishonest thing and try to pass the idea that the shooting of Joshua by PD after the shooting of his brother Jason somehow validates the original shooting, but I do find it disturbing that Mr. Grimm seems perfectly allright to do so in one case but fails to mention it in the other case.


    By the way, my original question stands... sorry I went off the tangent here. :D
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Yeah, we've been getting some of the same fertilizer here in Orlando in the Sentinel. Problem is these literary giants don't have a clue what the law really says and how little things have changed from the older castle doctrine, IE what is a defensable shooting.

    I would also have to say whoa, how does this apply to two felons with guns? They are already breaking the law and are offered no covering under the castle doctrine if they were involved in illegal activities.
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

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    <sigh> - just how hyped and inaccurate can spin be!!

    Incensed Miggy>? - Yep - and some.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    And it is spin.... no, wait. Not spin, shameless lies. I understand that a columnist is not subjected to the "standards" of journalism like a normal reporter would, but to outright lie? Me, average Joe (or Jose) with regular Internet access and 5 minutes of search engine time found more detail and veracity that he bothered to offer to the readers.
    You do not like the law? Fine, say so, I'll respect that. But do not lie like that!
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

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    Senior Member Array palmgopher's Avatar
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    you know i dont know what to say to im just going to say this

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    I LOVE THIS! Already some of my kids are using these articles in my Criminal Justice classes for their weekly current events homework. I require they clip the article, summarize in their own words and offer an OPINION on the piece. This is so I will know if they really understood the article in the first place. This gives me the perfect opportunity to bring up the subject in class without it prejudice so I can discuss all the sides (as I always DO) of the issue.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Senior Member Array palmgopher's Avatar
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    but the question is are they getting what is being read and what the LAW says and most importantly the difference between the two?

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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by palmgopher View Post
    but the question is are they getting what is being read and what the LAW says and most importantly the difference between the two?
    It's MY job to make sure that they do! Trust me, I've been at this for nearly 18 years and I'm a past social studies Teacher of the Year.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Senior Member Array palmgopher's Avatar
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    well i have no doubt you know what you are doing i was just wondering if some of them actually were able to figure it out themselves(sheepdogs) and how many had to have it explained and then still didnt get it(sheeple). =o)

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    Lightbulb Mostly sheep....some wolves....only a few sheepdogs....

    Quote Originally Posted by palmgopher View Post
    well i have no doubt you know what you are doing i was just wondering if some of them actually were able to figure it out themselves(sheepdogs) and how many had to have it explained and then still didnt get it(sheeple). =o)
    Noooooo Pretty even split between sheep and WOLVES. EXCEPT JROTC! Those kids are sheepdog material! These sheep are nonconfrontational for the most part (like other sheep) yet they have fairly well tuned survival instincts. That means they're pretty good at seeking and finding COVER! Does that make any sense?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Senior Member Array gregarat's Avatar
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    EXCEPT JROTC! Those kids are sheepdog material! These sheep are nonconfrontational for the most part (like other sheep) yet they have fairly well tuned survival instincts. That means they're pretty good at seeking and finding COVER! Does that make any sense?
    I second that!

    Two weeks ago, I made freinds with a kid who was JROTC. He wanted to be a Rangers. Unfourtionatly he had a battle with Cancer, in wich he won!
    While jogging last week a dirtbag made an atemt to mug him. My freind handeled the comfrontation corectly, and got the scum "hooked and booked" by the local LEO's. He also is a practitioner of Kung-Fu, wich gave him a mental edge over the BG.

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    From your research it appears that the media does not report the news; it makes up "facts" as they go along to fit the position that they have seen fit to report on. That is, in my opinion the general stance of the liberal media.
    One should never confuse good fortune with good training.
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    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
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    perhaps the converse gives people a license to die?

    Food for thought....
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

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