I am near speechless!

This is a discussion on I am near speechless! within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; From NRA. I think this is even more idiotic than the ''ballistic fingerprint'' crap MD tried. Implementation would be astronomically costly and in the end ...

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Thread: I am near speechless!

  1. #1
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    I am near speechless!

    From NRA.

    I think this is even more idiotic than the ''ballistic fingerprint'' crap MD tried. Implementation would be astronomically costly and in the end all it will do is make it harder for genuine folks to own guns and have their rightful means of self defence.

    Yet another 2A obstruction in the works.

    Gun `Microstamping` Bill Passes California Senate

    Cybercast News Service

    The California Senate on August 24 passed a bill that would require the "microstamping" of semi-automatic handguns--giving cartridges fired from those guns a unique imprint, which according to gun control advocates, somehow would help police solve crimes.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstor...20060825a.html
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Gun 'Microstamping' Bill Passes California Senate
    By Susan Jones
    CNSNews.com Senior Editor

    August 25, 2006

    (CNSNews.com) - The California Senate on Thursday passed a bill that would require the "microstamping" of semi-automatic handguns -- giving cartridges fired from those guns a unique imprint, which according to gun control advocates, would help police solve crimes.

    Supporters say microstamping would turn spent cartridges into potential evidence in civil and criminal cases. According the California Million Mom March, "when the police retrieve the bullet casing at a crime scene, they can quickly track down the legal owner of the handgun that fired it."

    Nonsense, say Second Amendment supporters, who view the bill as yet another attempt to burden gun manufacturers and further restrict gun sales in the state. They say that gun makers, faced with the added expense of microstamping semiautomatic weapons, would either stop selling their wares in California or drastically raise prices.

    The bill (AB 352) would "expand the definition of unsafe handgun to include semiautomatic pistols that are not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters, that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched into the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and which are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired."

    The bill passed the California Senate 22-18 and it now goes to the Assembly -- for a "fight and a final vote," said the California NRA Members' Councils, a grassroots gun-rights network.

    The bill's lead sponsor, Assemblyman Paul Koretz (D-West Hollywood) acting in tandem with the Coalition to Stop Handgun Violence, has been fighting to pass the bill since last year.

    Griffin Dix, the president of the California Million Mom March Chapters, said police fail to make an arrest in approximately 45 percent of all homicides in California because they lack the evidence they need. "This bill will help police...by providing them with new and meaningful leads for solving handgun crimes," Dix said.

    But the California NRA Members' Councils says the microstamping would create false evidence trails.

    "Micro-stamped cartridge cases fired and abandoned at government agencies facilities or private shooting ranges could be gathered and used to 'seed' crime scenes with the with 'evidence,' implicating law enforcement officers and citizens" in crimes they had nothing to do with, the group said in an analysis on its website.

    The gun-rights group also said microstamped cartridges could not be recycled because they might implicate secondary users of reloaded cartridges. "Millions of pounds of metals will be turned into scrap and require expense disposal requirements imposed so it will not enter landfills."

    And without the ability to sell and recycle used (microstamped) cartridge cases, the cost of firearms training will increase for government agencies, the gun rights group added.

    Second Amendment supporters also note that microstamps can be easily defeated by replacing parts of the handgun that have been stamped; polishing the microstamp with abrasives or modifying the stamp; and in some cases, the stamped markings may be filled in with residue produced by normal firing of the gun.

    Paul Helmke, the new president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, applauded the California State Senate for "embracing this innovative technology," and he said he hopes Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger "will listen to a fellow Republican and sign this bill once it passes."

    Second Amendment supporters, meanwhile, say they will mobilize grassroots opposition to the bill in an effort to prevent it from landing on the governor's desk.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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  3. #2
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    Yep. Morons, idiots, cretins all. No more needed.

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    Member Array mkeBob's Avatar
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    I guess the bad guys will need to go back to using revolvers. Just can't understand what's in the minds of the California electorate.
    The power of the future is in its ability to inspire the present.

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    Ban Cali politicians before they infect the rest of the country. Gotta wonder what crap they will think up next.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    Warning...........A lot of "Futurists" watch Cali as a "precursor" and predictor of ways the rest of the country might move.......<YUK>...but they also watch Florida and Texas too........so there might be hope!

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    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Yeah I think Rocky is right.... Ban the politicians. Before too long they're gonna start border-jumping into AZ then we'll have to reall patrol the AZ state line. haha
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    Member Array sarhog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post
    Implementation would be astronomically costly and in the end all it will do is make it harder for genuine folks to own guns and have their rightful means of self defence.
    That, my friend, is the real goal of the proposed legislation.
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    Senior Member Array Exodus's Avatar
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    Pfeh.....

    It sounds good on paper (I was lured into a similiar mindset for a few hours, until a few forum members slapped it out of me). But it'll never work. I could say more, but the 2A supporters pointed out a lot of the reasons why it'll never work. I'm glad the article covered both sides.

    Like Chris said: "Speechless"
    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent

    SIC VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM.

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    Only in California...my state...I apologize on behalf of all logical Californians.
    John
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    Lifetime NRA member

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    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftyjuan View Post
    Only in California...my state...I apologize on behalf of all logical Californians.


    So, if one buys 1x-fired brass from California, they can shoot somebody in TX with a normal pistol and the cops will trace the shell casing to Joe Blow in Sacramento? That sounds great!

    I see a booming business for brass catcher attachments.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

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    Name, rank and serial number?

    Wait till Maryland hears about this!!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Does anyone know how this will work, exactly? Is there even a working model? Does any firearm manufacturer have a production gun for this? Are any manufacturers going to play ball? Will all other firearms become outlawed? Dang, can I stop asking questions? Just incredulous.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Senior Member Array Exodus's Avatar
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    Thanks John. I was going to say something about everyone in Cali in my first post, but I knew there had to be someone there that had some sense.

    ....as to criminals starting to police their brass (or having a device to do it)...why not just use a revolver?

    Or, cross state lines to buy the gun? They're CRIMINALS! They don't care that it's illegal.

    It's been said, but I'll say it again. There are too many reasons why this can't work.

    Anywho, hopefully it won't pass. All I can say is that I'm glad my state representatives haven't gone insane. Gotta love Texas.
    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent

    SIC VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM.

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Does anyone know how this will work, exactly? Is there even a working model? Does any firearm manufacturer have a production gun for this? Are any manufacturers going to play ball? Will all other firearms become outlawed? Dang, can I stop asking questions? Just incredulous.
    I can only speculate, but I believe they can effectively cause the chamber to stamp the case with a serial number (or equivalent) as it expands upon firing. It doesn't sound too complicated to me, but I would like to see how they emboss the inside of the chamber that is typically drilled out on a lathe. Maybe they create a sleeve that has the raised numbers on it and then press fit it into the chamber.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Exodus's Avatar
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    The could also have a raised ID# on the firing pin. It'd be tiny (and wear away fast), but it might work.

    As to putting it in the chamber, wouldn't the number be fowled as the shell is extracted? Too shallow and it wouldn't take, too deep and it'd cause ejection problems. I'm sure it's possible one way or another, but as someone already stated, it would probably increase the cost of California Firearms.
    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent

    SIC VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM.

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