2nd Amendment Paper - Page 2

2nd Amendment Paper

This is a discussion on 2nd Amendment Paper within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Also if there is any doubt as to how the Second Ammendment should be interpreted then one only need look at the original Commonwealth Of ...

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Thread: 2nd Amendment Paper

  1. #16
    Array QKShooter's Avatar
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    Also if there is any doubt as to how the Second Ammendment should be interpreted then one only need look at the original Commonwealth Of Pennsylvania State Constitution. It's spelled out quite clearly in the PA document of September 28, 1776.

    It reads:

    XIII. That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

  2. #17
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Well, there they go again. The CLAMs (Congressional Left, Academics & Media) have gone and yet pulled another redefinition of terms.

    Nice one. I'd like to propose a modified acronym:

    L.A.M.E. - Leftist Academics & Media Elitists

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    I started to read this paper and stopped. Nope. Not gonna do it. I spent several hours today grading A.P. research papers for my own students. I'm home, now and I leave work at WORK.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 28 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; NRA Patron Life; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  5. #19
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    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    I speak as a teacher of Advanced Placement American Government and American History for over 17 years and a past social studies Teacher of the Year at my inner city high school.

    Somebody on another thread asked the question (and was joined by other posters) as to just where the antis get their arguments that the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution refers to some form of a "National Guard."

    The antis use the phrase well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state... as the rally cry to show they're correct. What they fail to admit as part of THAT argument is the following:

    The Second Amendment was written immediately following the American Revolution, however the seeds for it began during the war at the First Continental Congress. Had the Founding Fathers been speaking of a "national guard" THEN they would have been referring to the Tories loyal to King George! Do you think that's what they meant?

    Next, the term well regulated is not a term of legal art. Well Regulated refers rather to a term of military logistics and means "of like type and caliber." For ease of resupply during times of "callout" for a crisis.

    The "National Guard" as it exists today was not created until 1913. It is subject to full federalization as part of the armed forces of the United States. Witness that many of the state guards (including my home state of Florida) are now serving in Iraq.

    You'd have to refer to the Federalist Papers written prior to the ratification of the Constitution by Alexander Hamilton and James Madison. This is a series of essays written to convince the public at large as to the necessity for a strong central government and separate state governments (Federalism) being subordinate. Specifically Federalist #27, #28 and especially #46 speak to the importance of having an armed POPULATION. The antis convienently overlook these or dismiss them...as they dismiss the entire Constitution as being out of date and essentially worthless.

    The trouble is that the media supports the anti view. So does the vast majority of the liberal educational establishment who now controls our public PROPAGANDA....I mean out public school systems. It's been going on for FORTY years. That's two full generations of people who now are in a position to truly damage our national infrastructure out of ignorance and wrongly planted misinformation. Planted with a deliberate goal in mind.

    If you think that I'm leading up to some grandiose Conspiracy Theory you're correct. But I think that by this time in our history it should be clear that there is much more emphasis on this goal; given the moves made by more entities than just those groups dedicated to the destruction of the 2nd Amendment like the Brady Bunch! Let me be clear: There is no such thing as "accidental history!" Stuff doesn't "just happen." If you care to look...the links are visible.

    The antis in this country are no more than useful idiots to the people who are truly dedicated to advancing this agenda of evil. If you hadn't realized it before, there is big money behind all of this. Much more than that drawn to either the NRA or to HCI by the normal folks who happen to support either position.

    If you want a comprehensive look at the overall picture you need to look beyond the narrow proposition of the Bill of Rights and more specifically the 2nd Amendment. The base can be easily seen in economics, but the roots go much deeper. But start at the base.

    READ THIS BOOK: The Creature From Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin. It's an examination of the Federal Reserve Bank but it reads like the most thrilling mystery novel you ever read and each chapter is summarized for those of you without the time to read much. Available at amazon.com. I have also seen it at BORDERS Bookstores.
    I'm impressed with your reply...and you have 'educated' me...
    You made good points, some of which I have not heard before...

    Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”

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  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    I know exactly how you guys feel. This could have easily been a 45 page paper. However, because of the limited space, I could not include graphs, photos, or anything else.

    For those of you who don't know, I am attending a university that provides for an EXCELLENT education in "Security and International Intelligence." I also write for an intel newsletter that is distributed to quite a few intel agencies. My name is on the line with a paper like this and I can't afford to be seen as a political asset - either way. That is a huge reason my paper does not write to either direction. As much as I would love to write it towards our direction, I cannot. However the school I am at is extremely right, which should help me a little.

    Sigguy229 - I finished the 2nd section realizing I wouldn't be able to write as much as I would want to. The Israeli angle, as extreme as it is, would have proven to be an incredible side to the paper. However... I had no space for it. Maybe for my masters degree... lol

    QK - I REALLY wanted to include state consititutions - especially considering the datum I had collected based on states. It would have been a complete SLAM DUNK. However, like I said to Sig........ I had no space left. If I can do the Masters, you guys will be the first to know. If I can go for a Master's in Security, independent studies and personal experiences like the ones listed on this site will surely help me more than you all can imagine.

    This site is the most invaluable resource for cold hard facts about an armed citizenry. Every one who posted before helped me sculpt this paper. I'm sure it will help me ace the course. I can't thank you all enough.

    ExSoldier - I look forward to your opinion on this paper. Your editorials on this page contributed quite a bit (and the credit is due in the bibliography). Your experience as a Government teacher is, hopefully, just as helpful as you can imagine to anyone writing a paper - like myself.
    The Gunsite Blog
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    "It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008

  7. #21
    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    Probably not a popular position, but I would suggest you be careful about choosing the Second Amendment for your topic. You are trying to get a grade, remember? If your professor is hostile to the Second Amendment you may write the most wonderfully persuasive piece ever and still end up with a very bad grade. Is that what you want?

    And if your professor is, in fact, hostile to the Second Amendment, I can assure you that you are NOT going to change his mind, no matter how persuasive your arguments might be. If that is why you have chosen this Amendment, I'm sorry to say it, but you are in for a very big disappointment.

    Sometimes practicality needs to trump idealism. Just something to think about. Good luck.

    Edited: Oops! Well, I just realized that you've already written the paper. Got into this a bit late, I guess.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    Problems of the 2nd amendment nomenclature and their meaning as per the FF's:

    well regulated: not controlled, but refers to being well equipped

    militia: given in the justification clause (A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,...) referring to the people. The people are the militia and are to be the defense of the country. REMEMBER A STANDING ARMY IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Every couple years congress has to vote the military back in.

    people: citizens

    arms: weapons in every sense, from firearms to artillery to clubs, knives, bayonets, swords

    shall not: don't do it

    infringed: controlled, limiting of freedoms, violated.

    Right now in America the three biggest problems of what we have to deal with is "shall not be infringed" and informing the asshats what "arms" really is. Arms isn't short for firearms, it is an all inclusive word referring to weapons and weaponry in general. We have lost sight of this.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

    Probably the only home based FFL that doesn't do transfers.

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