First salvo at the “Stand Your Ground” law. - Page 2

First salvo at the “Stand Your Ground” law.

This is a discussion on First salvo at the “Stand Your Ground” law. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; What's wrong in this case is not the way the law is written.....it's the way LE authorities are using civilians to do their job. Usually ...

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Thread: First salvo at the “Stand Your Ground” law.

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    What's wrong in this case is not the way the law is written.....it's the way LE authorities are using civilians to do their job.
    Usually the LE wannabees sign up for neighborhood watch......to let them be armed while volunteering is a mistake....IMO Watching and reporting is just that......not confronting.

    What is intreiging to me is how they have forced this to be a Racial issue immediately......300,000+ signitures to Holder, a Federal Investigation......this guy wasn't even place under arrest by locals.....so.....let's bring out the Race Card.
    IMO............the people signing these petitions are probably the ones this Law was meant to address.


  2. #17
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    it's not like this law just showed up and maybe it’s a good thing it gets aired. The more people understand the easier it is to except


    edit:
    What is intreiging to me is how they have forced this to be a Racial issue immediately......300,000+ signitures to Holder, a Federal Investigation......this guy wasn't even place under arrest by locals.....so.....let's bring out the Race Card.
    IMO............the people signing these petitions are probably the ones this Law was meant to address.
    I heard it was up to 900,000 and the hoodie march was a 1,000,000 so what happen to the other 100,000 hoodies?

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    I listened to a radio interview of one of the members of the Brady group yesterday on a local station. Man, what a bunch of crap comin' out of his mouth. Of course, I know for a fact that the guy interviewing his is an anti so he was serving up softballs and not asking one decent follow up question to dispute what this idiot was spewing. Basically, he was stating as fact, his conjecture and assumptions about the case and what Zimmerman was thinking during the shooting, not to mention, his own anti-biases.

    I almost pulled my EDC and shot my car radio while driving 70 mph down the freeway.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    What's wrong in this case is not the way the law is written.....it's the way LE authorities are using civilians to do their job.
    Usually the LE wannabees sign up for neighborhood watch......to let them be armed while volunteering is a mistake....IMO Watching and reporting is just that......not confronting.

    What is intreiging to me is how they have forced this to be a Racial issue immediately......300,000+ signitures to Holder, a Federal Investigation......this guy wasn't even place under arrest by locals.....so.....let's bring out the Race Card.
    IMO............the people signing these petitions are probably the ones this Law was meant to address.
    Intriguing? When the only tool in the box is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
    goldshellback likes this.
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  5. #20
    sgb
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    All the polls I've seen so far show that the public supports the law.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  6. #21
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    I don't think you'll see much change to the law in FL or any other state. Once the press has something else to fuel a feeding frenzy with they'll forget about this one.
    sgb and msgt/ret like this.
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  7. #22
    JD
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    Stick to talk about the legislative issue. Any posts more focused on the events itself are going to be removed.

  8. #23
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    "State Sen. Chris Smith, a Fort Lauderdale Democrat, said he is preparing a bill that would not allow a self-defense claim in cases where the shooter appeared to provoke the victim. That could have be a factor in the Martin case, where 911 calls and other evidence shows that Zimmerman was following the teenager in his vehicle and approached him aggressively despite specific instructions from police to back off."

    It looks like there is going to be some change.

  9. #24
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    It's going to get real ugly before its all over. Prepare for civil discourse if Zimmerman does not get indicted. Also look for politicians to use this incident to change the "stand your ground law". Just like the NAACP and Al Sharpston is using the power of the media to get Zimmerman locked up by mobilizing the people to demonstrate, we must be ready to mobilize ourselves and demonstrate in unity on the streets if they try to repeal this law. The power is in the numbers and even-though the media does not like us, if they see us demonstrating peacefully in the streets for our G-D given right to bare arms, people will take notice. We're part of the silent majority, we can not afford to keep quiet any longer.

    Local news outlets are reporting that the chief of police of the Sanford Police Dept. is temporarily stepping down.

  10. #25
    sgb
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    "State Sen. Chris Smith, a Fort Lauderdale Democrat, said he is preparing a bill that would not allow a self-defense claim in cases where the shooter appeared to provoke the victim. That could have be a factor in the Martin case, where 911 calls and other evidence shows that Zimmerman was following the teenager in his vehicle and approached him aggressively despite specific instructions from police to back off."

    It looks like there is going to be some change.
    Politicians talk out both sides of their mouths, that provision is already in the statute.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDE101 View Post
    I don't think there is anything wrong with the law itself. The problem lies in how it has been applied! But the liberal, anti-gun media is blaming the law itself, just like they blame the guns, etc., rather than the REAL cause of a problem. There isn't anything wrong with being able to defend oneself. But the law should not keep a wannabe cop mall-ninja from going to jail for "murdering" an unarmed youth! Just my .02.


    Seeing as you were there(@ the scene of the Z/T incident, why haven't you offered a counter claim to what GZ said
    Here;
    "Mr. Zimmerman's statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon," Lee said.

    Which was
    taken from the OP's posted link.

    If he was following T and lost sight of him,(one of the original 9-11 calls had him, GZ telling the operator he (T) was walking through a spot where vehicles couldn't go), and subsequently was going back to his (GZ's) vehicle, whereupon T quite possibly blindsided/came from behind suddenly and jumped GZ.
    This would be a prominent facet of the stand your ground law, in a sense that if that is indeed what took place, and GZ was on the grass, (as has been reported by the initial responding police) he was most likely rattled by being jumped, and very likely in fear for his life, as any "reasonable person would be".
    Who would be considered the attacker NOW???

    GZ was approximately 60 lbs. heavier than T. That is IMHO not really a lot,

    I'm gonna shut my pie-hole, before I go and get a boo-boo on my report card.
    Seems to me, all you folks who saw the whole thing go down should have been questioned by the Sanford PD by now, and GZ should be in prison, EH?
    Stubborn and sgb like this.
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  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array shadowwalker's Avatar
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    Recent shooting in Phoenix, man broke down door and was shot by home owner. It seems they are looking if they should charge home owner , info I have is he stood his ground. I am trying to get more info as to what will be the final call, nothing has been said yet.

  13. #28
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    Nobody should be making a big deal out of this just yet, including and especially the media.

    The media fans flames and creates issues where there are none. This law is pretty clear: if you are met with deadly force, you have the right to respond with deadly force. If you can justifiably, reasonably, and with assurance prove you were in fear for your life, you have the right to defend yourself.

    The thing is this case needs to go trial, and it really does need to go to trial -- for everyone's sake, the victims family, the shooter and his family, the law, the anti's, the pro's, the cops .... for everyone sake this case needs to go to trial and needs to be played out within the justice system. Then, at the end of that effort, we should all know:

    1. The law is a good law when used properly.
    2. It may or may not have been applied properly by the shooter in this case; if it was not, then justice should be served.
    3. If it was not applied properly, and justice is indeed served, every pro-gun and every anti-gun should rejoice the same. That would prove that it wasn't the law at fault, and it will show that even pro-gun folks are smart enough to see the need for justice when someone does not apply the law properly.

    The media needs to simply back off and start reporting the facts .... good luck with that, not gonna happen. But if they could for a little while resort to responsible journalism, then the entire situation could get played out with cooler heads.

    And one more thing. 4. Don't worry about whether Z is arrested right now or not. He's not going anywhere. Get the facts on the table, if he's to be charged charge him, then incarcerate him and try him fairly. But he's not going anywhere, everyone needs to quit worrying about whether he's in jail right now or not.
    sgb, msgt/ret, Stubborn and 1 others like this.
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  14. #29
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    The rest of the story

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubborn View Post
    Just my opinion...and I am a Floridian, Doesn't appear "poorly written" to me.



    776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
    (a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
    (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
    (2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
    (a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or
    (b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or
    (c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
    (d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
    (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
    (4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
    (5) As used in this section, the term:
    (a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
    (b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
    (c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.
    History.—s. 1, ch. 2005-27.
    [B]776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
    (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
    (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

    Remember sensationalism sells, so the media have motivation to fan the flames. Initially very little of the totality of the circumstances are available to the media and they can slant those tidbits either way without lying. Grand juries have much more information than the media. If there is an inditment, the trial jury will have even more evidence to weigh.

    The justice system is not perfect, but overall justice, (under the rules of the law) usually prevails.

  15. #30
    Member Array bolocanolo's Avatar
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    Bigmacque.....One scenario you didn't cover. What if Zimmerman get's tried and acquitted? If you've lived in Florida as long as I have, you have to remember the Riots (in Miami) of the 1980's. Because this news has gone nationwide, the civil unrest may be nationwide. What do we do then? Innocent people were killed in those riots, just because they found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.
    bigmacque likes this.

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