First salvo at the “Stand Your Ground” law.

First salvo at the “Stand Your Ground” law.

This is a discussion on First salvo at the “Stand Your Ground” law. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The news media and anti-gun groups are using the shooting in Sanford to attack the ‘stand your ground’ laws. 'Stand Your Ground Law' at center ...

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Thread: First salvo at the “Stand Your Ground” law.

  1. #1
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    First salvo at the “Stand Your Ground” law.

    The news media and anti-gun groups are using the shooting in Sanford to attack the ‘stand your ground’ laws.

    'Stand Your Ground Law' at center of Fla. shooting

    MIAMI (AP) — Florida is among 21 states with a "Stand Your Ground Law," which gives people wide latitude to use deadly force rather than retreat during a fight. The self-defense law helps explain why a neighborhood watch captain has not been arrested in the shooting death of an unarmed teenager.

    The Florida law lets police officers on the scene decide whether they believe the self-defense claim. In many cases, the officer's defer to making the arrest, letting the courts work out whether the deadly force is justified. In this case, however, police have said they are confident they did the right thing by not charging 28-year-old George Zimmerman, a white Hispanic.

    The shooting's racial overtones have sparked a national outcry and debate over whether the shooting was warranted. And like many self-defense cases, two sides of the story have emerged.
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    [Moderator note: Any posts regarding the shooting itself should be posted to this thread: http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...murder-15.html ]
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    Member Array mjblat's Avatar
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    As a Kentucky CCDW Instr., let me say that Stand your Ground makes sense. I would hate to be attacked from behind because the attacker is faster than me, or shot in the back running away. We have a God given right to defend ourselves, but not look for trouble.
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I don't know how it will all come out in the wash but I imagine many of the laws will be evaluated and perhaps changed. Florida's law is pretty wide open, and in my opinion poorly written.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    I don't know how it will all come out in the wash but I imagine many of the laws will be evaluated and perhaps changed. Florida's law is pretty wide open, and in my opinion poorly written.
    Nothing wrong with perfecting vague legislation, but I have a very bad feeling where this one leads, both locally and nationwide.
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    Member Array swmft's Avatar
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    The Florida version of the law has some problems. We had a guy who was let off after chasing down and killing a person who was stealing car radios. It is on camra, but I think it would be better if a grand jury decided case by case which was justified and which was murder.
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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Just my opinion...and I am a Floridian, Doesn't appear "poorly written" to me.



    776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
    (a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
    (b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
    (2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
    (a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or
    (b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or
    (c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
    (d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
    (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
    (4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
    (5) As used in this section, the term:
    (a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
    (b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
    (c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.
    History.—s. 1, ch. 2005-27.
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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Trayvon Martin's Alleged Attacker Not Covered Under Law I Wrote | Fox News

    Here's a link to Rep. Baxley's letter to concerning the law 'he wrote'...........
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    Doesn't appear poorly written to me either..........seems when the media get hold of something and presents their bias....it causes rational people to become irrational in their thought process and rethink thier positions...good or bad.
    The SYGL is one of the best....IMO and protects all honest law biding citizens of Fla............
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    Distinguished Member Array Stubborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxplosive View Post
    Doesn't appear poorly written to me either..........seems when the media get hold of something and presents their bias....it causes rational people to become irrational in their thought process and rethink thier positions...good or bad.
    The SYGL is one of the best....IMO and protects all honest law biding citizens of Fla............
    AMEN!

    Below is a DIRECT quote from Rep. Baxley, who sponsored the bill in 2005


    The facets of the castle doctrine deal with using force to meet force as an act of self-defense when in your home, in your car, on your property, or anywhere you are legally able to be. The law also protects property owners and their homeowner's insurance from being wrongfully sued by perpetrators who claim to be harmed while committing a crime.
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    [QUOTE=Stubborn;2208369]AMEN!

    You are not getting what is going on in south florida. We have A LOT of bad ,or stupid cops, so ther have been a number of murder cases thrown out under stand your ground for bad or illigaly gathered evidense on drug or gang related cases.

    I am not anti I have carried more years than I can remember had a permit under the old system where they only issued to buisness owners. If you read some of the other cases going on in miami, not just the sanford thing you will see what I say is so. Child killed in a gang banger shootout guy they had was let go on stand your ground, the drugs in his pocket inadmissable for illegal search. (black on black no one is screaming ,what is wrong with these people!)
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    The law is fine as written. This case just needs to go to court. I know the MSM is implying murder is legal in Florida, but it is not. Here are three high-profile cases where judges have denied SYG.

    Lee County judge denies Stand Your Ground motion in Fort Myers strip club case » Naples Daily News
    Judge denies 'Stand Your Ground' claim, notes blood spatter, 75-plus stab wounds » Marco Eagle
    Judge denies Stand Your Ground motion in Couture slaying » Naples Daily News
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    The reason I say Florida's law is poorly written is that it's author claims it to not say what it says. If it were "well written" there would theoretically be no question as to its applicability in a particular case.
    There is nothing in the castle doctrine as found in Florida statutes that authenticates or provides for the opportunity to pursue and confront individuals, it simply protects those who would be potential victims by allowing for force to be used in self-defense.
    But what law is being broken by pursuing and confronting individuals? If pursuing and confronting someone is not "unlawful activity" how does that section of law not cover somenone who pursues someone? The only way it could be proven, as written, not to is if pursuer can be shown to physically attack the person he or she pursued.

    If you follow me in a place we both have a right to be, and I stop and stand my ground and strike out at you have I lost my ability to claim self defense by attacking you? As the law is written it would appear that I have since I attacked you and am not "meeting force with force". As the person following have you given up your ability to claim self defense simply by following me. If so how? Where on a force continuum does "following" or "pursuing" or "chasing" fall?
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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    Trayvon Martin's Alleged Attacker Not Covered Under Law I Wrote | Fox News

    Here's a link to Rep. Baxley's letter to concerning the law 'he wrote'...........
    This is what I have been saying in the other thread on the issue. That the law was not written to allow or protect those who initiate the action. The author of the Law seems to agree that was not his intent.
    There is nothing in the castle doctrine as found in Florida statutes that authenticates or provides for the opportunity to pursue and confront individuals, it simply protects those who would be potential victims by allowing for force to be used in self-defense.
    I believe that it is a well written law.

    Michael
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    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
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    I don't think there is anything wrong with the law itself. The problem lies in how it has been applied! But the liberal, anti-gun media is blaming the law itself, just like they blame the guns, etc., rather than the REAL cause of a problem. There isn't anything wrong with being able to defend oneself. But the law should not keep a wannabe cop mall-ninja from going to jail for "murdering" an unarmed youth! Just my .02.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Well, here we go. Round robins barn. I saw a clip in our local paper about the 21 states and the stand your ground laws. The media and antis are going to have fun with this.....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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