National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act 2012

National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act 2012

This is a discussion on National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act 2012 within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Well, I sent one of those prepared letters to both of the MI senators (Levin and Stabenow) who are both Dems. Here's the (I believe) ...

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    Senior Member Array MotorCityGun's Avatar
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    National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act 2012

    Well, I sent one of those prepared letters to both of the MI senators (Levin and Stabenow) who are both Dems. Here's the (I believe) canned response she/her office sent back:

    Thank you for contacting me about interstate concealed firearm permit reciprocity. I understand your concerns.

    I have great respect for the Second Amendment to our constitution. I grew up in Clare, Michigan, and many in my family enjoy hunting and fishing across our state. I felt very comfortable growing up with guns in our home and I understand the importance of legal and safe gun ownership. While I oppose efforts to take guns away from law-abiding citizens, I support enforcement of laws that protect our children and our families from gun violence and other criminal activity.

    As you may know, Congressman Cliff Stearns (R-Florida) introduced the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act (H.R.822) on February 18, 2011. This legislation has passed the House of Representatives and is currently pending before the Senate Judiciary Committee, of which I am not a member. I will keep your position on this bill in mind as it moves through the legislative process.

    Thank you again for contacting me. Please continue to keep me informed about issues of concern to you and your family.

    Sincerely,

    Debbie Stabenow
    United States Senator

    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Ben Franklin

    NRA Life


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array rambosky's Avatar
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    Interesting. I've sent letters to my senator's and congressman about various issues and got back far more BS than that. Let us hope H.R. 822 passes the Senate also.

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    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    I got an almost identical response from my Rep before it went to a vote in the house (Doc Hastings R-WA) and my Senators after it went to the Senate Judiciary or whatever (Maria Cantwell D-WA and Patty Murray D-WA). Hastings voted for the House bill, and I guarantee that Cantwell and Murray will vote against it.

    I'm pretty sure that bills like this get an unofficial response form letter that gets passed around to all the Congresscritters.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
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    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    I got almost the same response from one of my NJ representatives, and we know how he would vote if given the opportunity.
    Glock Armorer

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    Ex Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    Does anyone know the status of this effort?

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Does anyone know the status of this effort?
    It's on the hill... what more do you want/expect. Whatever it is, that and a buck will buy you coffee in a diner.

    It's like the Federal park carry bill, if it gets attached to something (oh, like a congressional pay raise), we might actually get it.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Member Array LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Does anyone know the status of this effort?
    Well as everyone here knows the H.R. 822 National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 passed the House and is waiting for the companion bill S. 2213 "Respecting States' Rights and Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2012" to pass the Senate. However even though the House bill has passed the Senate bill has merely been read and sent to the Committee on the Judiciary where it is dying a slow death.
    It will take the 18 member committee to review it, approve it and send it back to the floor before the Senate can vote on it. The make up of the Committee on the Judiciary presently has 10 Democrats and 8 Republicans seated on the committee.
    Bill Summary & Status - 112th Congress (2011 - 2012) - S.2213 - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

    I know that what I am about to say will probably not be popular, but I will say it as we all have rights other than the 2A.
    We already have the 2A. We do not need our Government meddling in gun-control laws at all.. even those that supposedly will be beneficial to us. All it will do is to allow our Federal Government further ability to make changes to the bill after it has been signed into law without much effort at all. Meaning that once passed, what will prevent Congress as some point modifying or repealing the law and inserting language that would then make anyone found to be carrying across their state lines guilty of a felony which would ultimately make felons of a lot of people and then legally strip them of their gun ownership rights forever.
    Do any of you trust our Congress as far as you could throw the Statue of Liberty?

    I see this bill as being another Mandate by our Government that DICTATES to the States and by extension You and I. That dictation means that we will lose a basic Freedom and that is the Right to Choose! I do Carry, I support the 2A and I do not read the 2A as saying that we can only carry when the Government tells us we can by in a manner that the Government tells us we can.. Our States have infringed upon our rights to carry by implementing laws "REQUIRING" us to "Obtain PERMISSION" to be able to carry how we may wish and where we may wish.

    Do I feel that we should be able to carry in every state within this great nation? Heck YES! I feel that our 2A already says that we can.. but there are few who read the 2A the way that I do.. So.. my suggestion is that all of WE 2A supporters, Gun-Rights supporters, Self-Defense supporters, etc.. Write and push our Congress Persons to propose a Constitutional Amendment that would not repeal the 2A but clarify it by having it say that All Law-Abiding American Citizens have the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in a manner of their choosing. And that the Citizens Right to Own and Carry anywhere within the United States of America in a manner consistent with the individual citizens needs shall not be impaired, infringed, abridged, denied or disparaged.
    Once it is ratified by the requisite number of States, it becomes the Law of the Land and even citizens living in states like Illinois will once again be able to enjoy Freedom and Liberty from at least a few more oppressive laws which have been passed.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    MCG, you are better off holding your breath, than trying to get thru to these two...
    Hopyard and MotorCityGun like this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    Welcome, LkWD_Don. Well said. A return to traditional values like the original intent of 2A restores the blessings of liberty to us, the progeny of our founders.

    With the Obamacare case, SCOTUS is hearing a bit about how big government uses the Commerce Clause to expand its power.
    The CC was to negate interstate tarriffs preventing interstate trade under the Articles of Confederation - without violating the sovereignty of the states.
    James Madison noted in Federalist No. 45 that it was "an addition which few oppose, and from which no apprehensions are entertained." The Father of the Constitution also noted that the powers of the states are "numerous and infinite" while the federal government's are "few and defined." - WSJ
    Justifying National Right to Carry Reciprocity with the Commerce Clause further distorts what the government can regulate with the trend being "virtually anything". As GOA says:
    The bill states that because firearms “have been shipped in interstate commerce,” the Congress in justified in passing this legislation. That is not the “commerce” the Founder’s envisioned as they sought to remove barriers of interstate trade.

    The modern and broad interpretation of the Commerce Clause would, in the words of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas (Gonzales v. Raich), confer on the federal government the power to “regulate virtually anything – [until] the federal Government is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers.”

    ....Any federal legislation that imposes demands on the states must be scrutinized carefully by the language of the Constitution. At this point, a cynic might correctly point out that Congress passes bills on a weekly basis that go beyond what the Constitution allows. But we must be especially careful, as people who work towards federalism and constitutional government, not to fall into the trap of the end justifying the means.
    What we need is liberty, plain and simple. Any other way perpetuates the darker aspects of the human condition mostly sufferred throughout history and rightfully redressed too rarely.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    This bill is unconstitutional and threatens our way of life. It is socialism, plain and simple. And socialism is never the answer.

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    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    This bill is unconstitutional and threatens our way of life. It is socialism, plain and simple. And socialism is never the answer.
    Socialism is is an economic system characterized by social ownership and control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy.

    Not sure what this bill has to do with socialism.
    Hopyard likes this.

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    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    This bill is unconstitutional and threatens our way of life. It is socialism, plain and simple. And socialism is never the answer.
    - The problem is that the current Supreme Court allows "reasonable" restrictions. That brings us to where we are now, with certain states (NY, IL) having no respect for the 2nd.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote." ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highvoltage View Post
    Socialism is is an economic system characterized by social ownership and control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy.

    Not sure what this bill has to do with socialism.
    I'd say that 'Socialism' is probably the most overused term in the current political discourse. We need to start calling things by their proper names again. Socialism scares me, but I haven't seen any gun bills that are Socialist... I'm not even sure what that would be... wouldn't a 'Socialist' gun bill be a free government-issued gun to every Citizen? I think they call that 'conscripted'
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

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    Member Array LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by livewire9880 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by highvoltage
    Socialism is is an economic system characterized by social ownership and control of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy.
    I'd say that 'Socialism' is probably the most overused term in the current political discourse. We need to start calling things by their proper names again. Socialism scares me, but I haven't seen any gun bills that are Socialist... I'm not even sure what that would be... wouldn't a 'Socialist' gun bill be a free government-issued gun to every Citizen? I think they call that 'conscripted'
    Is that an original meaning of Socialism or the redefined version. Like how our Constitutional Republic is now touted as being a Democracy.

    No, If you want examples of Socialism.. Think Medicare, Social Security, and ObamaCare is another prime example of socialism run rampant.

    As this is supposed to be a thread on the National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act and not politics in general.. I will mute my fingers for now.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    Is that an original meaning of Socialism or the redefined version. Like how our Constitutional Republic is now touted as being a Democracy.

    No, If you want examples of Socialism.. Think Medicare, Social Security, and ObamaCare is another prime example of socialism run rampant.

    As this is supposed to be a thread on the National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act and not politics in general.. I will mute my fingers for now.
    Exactly :)
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

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