Mayor against illegal guns believe hr 822 dead in the senate

Mayor against illegal guns believe hr 822 dead in the senate

This is a discussion on Mayor against illegal guns believe hr 822 dead in the senate within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Michael Bloomberg's gun-control guy dreams of building a rival to the N.R.A., some day | Capital New York Feinblatt says that, in good part thanks ...

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    Mayor against illegal guns believe hr 822 dead in the senate

    Michael Bloomberg's gun-control guy dreams of building a rival to the N.R.A., some day | Capital New York



    Feinblatt says that, in good part thanks to his organization's lobbying efforts, neither bill will pass the Senate, and that, therefore, both are dead. (Last time Thune introduced such a measure, in 2010, it got 58 votes in the Senate, two short of the number needed to overcome a filibuster.)

    According to Feinblatt, “moderate senators” have flipped on the issue since then, though he declined to say which ones.

    “I think we have turned the tide on this issue in the Senate," he said.


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    Unfortunately, some people have to be subjected to the criminal element up close and personal in order to see the light.......maybe they will.

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    From the Article: "So politically toxic is gun control understood to be that the Bloomberg-led coalition doesn't position itself as a gun-control group at all: it is very deliberately named Mayors Against Illegal Guns (as opposed to, say, "Mayors Against Guns"); it is a group that is against crime, not the rights of legal gun-owners, etc."

    Noble as that may sound, defeating HR882 will not reduce the transportation of ILLEGAL guns from state to state, however it will maintain the inappropriate boundaries on the 2A that currently prevent LEGAL GUN-OWNERS from protecting themselves and their families on those day trips to a neighboring state (without going through the hassles and expense of obtaining non-resident permits)

    So it looks to me that this coalition really is a "gun-control group" and they just won't admit as much for the sake of political perceptions.... Way to gain credibility Bloomberg!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    These guys are Jewish and they're FOR gun control?? WWII was not that long ago. I would think that all Jewish folks would be NRA members. I guess I'm missing something.
    You are missing something....lack of tact and common sense. Since when does one's faith or heritage determine whether or not they carry? We don't live in Nazi Germany any more.

    I'd think more Christians should be carrying since they're single-handedly responsible for more deaths in the world than any other culture or faith group...go to your "Jesus-house" and convince them to carry since religion and past dictates someone's choice to carry. Hell...based on your "WWII wasn't that long ago" statement....by this logic every African American, Japanese American, Native American, etc should all be carrying b/c of events in their cultural past.

    Yes, I'm Jewish. Yes, I'm the only person in my family that carries. Your statement is one of the most idiotic I've seen on this forum.
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    Distinguished Member Array claude clay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    These guys are Jewish and they're FOR gun control?? WWII was not that long ago. I would think that all Jewish folks would be NRA members. I guess I'm missing something.

    -
    your comment is akin to a statement about women being x or y--as a group there will be tendencies; as individuals there will be differences.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostRed7 View Post
    You are missing something....lack of tact and common sense. Since when does one's faith or heritage determine whether or not they carry? We don't live in Nazi Germany any more.

    I'd think more Christians should be carrying since they're single-handedly responsible for more deaths in the world than any other culture or faith group...go to your "Jesus-house" and convince them to carry since religion and past dictates someone's choice to carry. Hell...based on your "WWII wasn't that long ago" statement....by this logic every African American, Japanese American, Native American, etc should all be carrying b/c of events in their cultural past.

    Yes, I'm Jewish. Yes, I'm the only person in my family that carries. Your statement is one of the most idiotic I've seen on this forum.
    I have several friends, as well as members of this and other forums, who believe that the exeperience of Jews pre- and during WWII would make them more aware of the need for guns than the average group. So, ChevySS's comment, according to them, is not idiotic.

    And, you need to check your history. Atheists/atheistic regimes hold the records for being responsible for deaths. While it is morally reprehensible that any faith group should be involved in the deaths of others, including Christianity, your comment regarding the guilt of Christians is not factual.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    These guys are Jewish and they're FOR gun control?? WWII was not that long ago. I would think that all Jewish folks would be NRA members. I guess I'm missing something.

    -
    Yes you are missing a lot, and basing your view on stereotypes.

    Check out jpfo.org/
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    OK, apologies. All my comments deleted. Would appreciate it if the name-calling ceased.

    Thanks

    -
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

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    "I mean, Obama has done nothing virtually to tamper or restrict gun rights. You could argue he's gone the other way. Guns in national parks. Guns on Amtrak. And yet the N.R.A. is still raising dollars off the concept that Obama is gonna take your guns away."
    So much for campaign promises. MAIG wants to believe that your gun rights come from government. That politicians are running the show.
    "Gun-control groups, whether it’s the mayors group or Brady, those folks are playing defense, and they’re not playing very good defense right now," said Harry Wilson, a professor of political science at Virginia's Roanoke College, who has written extensively on gun control. "At this point in time, I would say the N.R.A. and gun-rights groups are winning. But that’s always open to change."
    Playing defense against your freedom and rights. Maybe a smart career move. But never a viable long-term strategy.

    "Al Gore didn’t play his gun cards right on that one," said Wilson. "People still talk about Florida obviously, but those of us who focus more on gun control talk more about West Virginia, Tennessee and Arkansas, which are states that Gore lost and should not have lost. And a lot of people like me point to guns, not as the only reason, but one of the big reasons he lost those states."
    In other words, Gore didn't fool enough key people to win the election.

    The grass-roots freedom folks, in contact with their representatives and in support of pro-gun rights groups will carry the day.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    OK, apologies. All my comments deleted. Would appreciate it if the name-calling ceased.

    Thanks

    -
    No name calling from me. Since you are in Rhode Island, check this tourist site out: Touro Synagogue 85 Touro Street Newport, RI 02840, and check out this: "Annual recitation of the Washington–Seixas letter on religious pluralism."

    The letter from George Washington to Moses Seixas is an important founding document: It says in part:

    "the Government of the United States...gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance...May the children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, and there shall be none to make him afraid. May the father of all mercies scatter light and not darkness in our paths, and make us all in our several vocations useful here, and in his own due time and way everlastingly happy."

    Now if we live up to what President Washington had to say on the position of The United States, I don't think any of us need fear religious persecution or arm ourselves from that fear alone. There are good reasons to be armed, but
    in this land, fear of official persecution isn't one of them.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Now if we live up to what President Washington had to say on the position of The United States, I don't think any of us need fear religious persecution or arm ourselves from that fear alone. There are good reasons to be armed, but
    in this land, fear of official persecution isn't one of them.
    YET,IMHO this is not the Country our founding fathers envisioned.I see a very bleak future for not only our Country but the world in General.I see a future where since majority votes rule, our rights are stripped away one by one.I just hope I'm not around to live it,or if I am I don't go down without a fight.
    Stubborn and gigamortis like this.
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    So far it's GOOD that this thread is staying on topic - religious discussion is fine as long as the postings stay directly on topic to the primary focus of DefensiveCarry.
    Try hard not to allow the thread to veer off into general religious discussion.
    Kudos to you all...so far.

    Please also try not to delve into exactly how many humans have historically been killed by Christians or Atheists or space aliens because we'll never know exact numbers and besides in the existence of human beings on Planet Earth - by far the largest numbers of various assorted human beings all over the planet that have been wiped out were exterminated by Mother Nature and natural forces and Earth changes beyond human control.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    Just want to note that I don't see this as a religious discussion. My post was intended to provide some
    historical perspective going back to President Washington's day.

    When he became President, there was almost no basis for how he as President was to interpret the constitution.
    The Constitutional convention was held in secret and its participants sworn to secrecy. Everything was
    brand new.

    President Washington's letter to Moses Seixas at Touro in Rhode Island was his response to an inquiry and with it
    he laid out the position of the government of The United States as interpreted by its first President.

    As far as I know, no President has ever come close to veering from that position. However, "In 1862, in the heat of the Civil War, General Ulysses S. Grant initiated one of the most blatant official episodes of anti-Semitism in 19th-century American history. In December of that year, Grant issued his infamous General Order No. 11, which expelled all Jews from Kentucky, Tennessee and Mississippi:" http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...ism/grant.html

    (I don't know if Lincoln knew about it at the time or what his reaction was. It would seem uncharacteristic of Lincoln to approve of that. ADDED LATER-- Grant's order was rescinded 3 days later when Lincoln was informed.)

    That one episode aside, one does not need to arm against the actions of one's government when they are as plainly benign as the Washington
    letter announces.

    As I wrote above, there are good reasons to keep arms, but fear of religious persecution by The United States isn't one of them.

    I also want to note this part of the Washington letter: "May the children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants" It is fashionable among some to direct enmity at
    Moslem inhabitants of the US. Yet, they too are from the "stock of Abraham."

    I'm not writing about religion, and I didn't think the OP was writing about religion. I'm trying to make a couple of points about our history in response to what the OP had to say.
    Last edited by Hopyard; April 11th, 2012 at 03:47 PM. Reason: Added a piece of history
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    One does not need to arm against the actions of one's government when they are as plainly benign as the Washington
    letter announces.
    They aren't benign today.

    As I wrote above, there are good reasons to keep arms, but fear of religious persecution by The United States isn't one of them.
    I don't see how you can state that as a non-issue. Any rights, if left unguarded, can be stripped away and just like the story of the frog in the lukewarm but eventually boiling water met his death, so can our rights be slowly stripped away and stripped away until voila - we have none.
    Pistology likes this.
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    @accessbob-- please go back and read the entire thread and take note of the context. Thank you.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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