Rep. Issa Pushing Contempt Order Against Eric Holder

This is a discussion on Rep. Issa Pushing Contempt Order Against Eric Holder within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I used shorthand...... If the Law is in your favor, argue (that) the Law (applies); If the Facts are in your favor, argue (that) the ...

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Thread: Rep. Issa Pushing Contempt Order Against Eric Holder

  1. #256
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    Cool Shorthand, dear

    I used shorthand......

    If the Law is in your favor, argue (that) the Law (applies);
    If the Facts are in your favor, argue (that) the Facts (control); and
    If Neither are in your favor, pound your shoe on the desk.......

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  3. #257
    Member Array LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I couldn't agree more; but would add that one side of the truth might be the DOJ did nothing wrong
    and we should not close our minds to that as well.
    Interesting, We are talking about the AG's involvemnt in F&F and you have been focusing more on the DOJ and IG.
    Both are supervised by the AG.

    Knowing based upon your history in this thread, that you would contest it without providing any supportive evidence I will again do as I have all along. I will post a source citation that I am sure you will find some way of trying to discredit or sidestep.

    Found at USDOJ: About: Department of Justice Agencies

    Office of the Attorney General
    The mission of the Office of the Attorney General is to supervise and direct the administration and operation of the Department of Justice, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Drug Enforcement Administration, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Bureau of Prisons, Office of Justice Programs, and the U.S. Attorneys and U.S. Marshals Service, which are all within the Department of Justice.
    And I will say again that if the Attorney General (AG) is unaware of what is going on in those departments under his direct supervisory and administrative responsibility and control, He has no business being the AG.

    So as Eric Holder the AG has testified under oath that he had no knowledge, then corrected himself at another session where he testified. He should be held in contempt if not criminally charged with perjury as he did not tell the truth under oath the first time. In that aspect, it is my opinion that Rep. Issa is being overly generous, contrary to what most in his Political Party would see as being justified.

    In either case, he should be Fired just for his own statement that he did not know what was going on under him when he holds that position of responsibility.

    My Final word on it.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  4. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    Interesting, We are talking about the AG's involvemnt in F&F and you have been focusing more on the DOJ and IG.
    Both are supervised by the AG.

    Knowing based upon your history in this thread, that you would contest it without providing any supportive evidence I will again do as I have all along. I will post a source citation that I am sure you will find some way of trying to discredit or sidestep.

    Found at USDOJ: About: Department of Justice Agencies



    And I will say again that if the Attorney General (AG) is unaware of what is going on in those departments under his direct supervisory and administrative responsibility and control, He has no business being the AG.

    So as Eric Holder the AG has testified under oath that he had no knowledge, then corrected himself at another session where he testified. He should be held in contempt if not criminally charged with perjury as he did not tell the truth under oath the first time. In that aspect, it is my opinion that Rep. Issa is being overly generous, contrary to what most in his Political Party would see as being justified.

    In either case, he should be Fired just for his own statement that he did not know what was going on under him when he holds that position of responsibility.

    My Final word on it.

    My final word on it too.

    We've all gone too far from the apolitical merely because guns were involved. The same
    logic would have us re-open the Z files. Enough. Its been a good chat actually.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  5. #259
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    Guys, don't throw in the towel just yet.



    CCRKBA pulls out all stops against Holder

    With the National Rifle Association poised to count votes and an 11th hour meeting Tuesday between Obama administration officials and representatives from the offices of Darrell Issa and John Boehner falling apart, the Bellevue-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms has pulled off the gloves.

    CCRKBA pulls out all stops against Holder - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com


    Thursday could be a long day for the gun grabbers...

  6. #260
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    Thursday could be a long day for the gun grabbers...
    We shall see.

  7. #261
    Distinguished Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    I've got my waders handy in the case that we ever get to the bottom of this.
    Rock and Glock likes this.

  8. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doghandler View Post
    I've got my waders handy in the case that we ever get to the bottom of this.
    Waders? Ha! You better have oxygen tanks and a Sea Hunt/Lloyd Bridges single lens face mask!

    ‘High Noon’ for Holder looms

    It will be “High Noon” on Capitol Hill Thursday for Attorney General Eric Holder, who just might be lucky that a planned vote on contempt – the first ever against an attorney general – is held on the same day the U.S. Supreme Court will rule on the Obama health care law.

    ‘High Noon’ for Holder looms - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com
    Spirit51 and Doghandler like this.

  9. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    We shall see.
    I agree! We shall see.

    In the mean time, I see no evidence that can be presented that will move the discussion forward either for or against Holder.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  10. #264
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    I'm no consiparcy theorists but eventually 1+1 adds up and makes 2....

    I believe this whole thing was fabricated at the top to try and push an agenda.....The only problem is they had no idea what they were doing, and the whole thing is unraveling. They maybe very past the point where they even have the ability to do any cover up! I have a feeling eventually this will go all the way to the top (Obama, Hillary, and for that matter even the Brady Campaign). No matter which way it goes it should be interesting to watch it unfold.
    Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  11. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    I agree! We shall see.

    In the mean time, I see no evidence that can be presented that will move the discussion forward either for or against Holder.
    Not evidence, as we agreed previously the term should be applied, but interesting:

    From Washington Post today Story By Sari Horwitz, Updated: Wednesday, June 27, 4:20 PM
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...y.html?hpid=z2

    Agent who started ‘Fast and Furious’ defends gunrunning operation

    “It was the only way to dismantle an entire firearms-trafficking ring and stop the thousands of guns flowing to Mexico,” said William D. Newell, a veteran federal agent who spent five years as the head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Phoenix.

    Newell scoffs when he hears lawmakers and others call those tactics “controversial.”

    “The notion that there was a secret tactic is totally absurd,” Newell said.

    The article is a good read, and you can apply your own judgment as to what you wish to believe or disbelieve.
    Last edited by Hopyard; June 27th, 2012 at 06:23 PM. Reason: corrected the url I think
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  12. #266
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    From the article:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...gin_redirect=0

    It was the only way to dismantle an entire firearms-trafficking ring and stop the thousands of guns flowing to Mexico,” said William D. Newell, a veteran federal agent who spent five years as the head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Phoenix.
    Newell was involved in Wide Receiver and ran Fast and Furious. Newell gives career BATFE bureaucrats a very bad name. Newell ran guns into Mexico without the knowledge of the Mexican government: Guns Newell walked were used to kill two federal LEOs. Why is Newell not in jail?

    But when Congress began investigating, Melson stopped calling. To this day, no senior Justice official has talked to Newell about Fast and Furious, and his bosses at ATF have never publicly defended him
    Its hard to defend the indefensible.

    Still no call from the Republican political hacks to reform the BATFE.
    Last edited by OD*; June 27th, 2012 at 08:18 PM.

  13. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    If I were a betting lady I would bet that Hopyard will be here any minute to make a excuse for this one, but I don't think anyone would bet against me.
    Shoot! I really could have used the money.

    Any takers that "Mr. Last Word" won't come back? Hmmmm?
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  14. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    Shoot! I really could have used the money.

    Any takers that "Mr. Last Word" won't come back? Hmmmm?
    That was yesterday's last word. I had hoped the thread would disappear. It didn't.
    SO....

    Sometimes it takes a little time for a truce to take hold and stay in place.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  15. #269
    Member Array LkWd_Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LkWd_Don View Post
    I agree! We shall see.

    In the mean time, I see no evidence that can be presented that will move the discussion forward either for or against Holder.
    Even after reading the most recent posts pertaining to the Washington Post today.
    Story By Sari Horwitz, Updated: Wednesday, June 27, 4:20 PM
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...y.html?hpid=z2

    I still see nothing that would move the discussion forward, so am waiting for something more.
    Last edited by LkWd_Don; June 27th, 2012 at 08:33 PM. Reason: typo
    Hopyard and Sig 210 like this.
    Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement.

  16. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    ........

    Still no call from the Republican political hacks to reform the BATFE.
    Reform? Let's make the goal total abolition of the BATFE. The FBI can take over the law enforcement side of things. The legislature can tackle the "definitions and rules". The CIA can take over whatever sleazy and ethically questionable jobs are left to be done - just as long as those jobs are done outside our boarders, of course.

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