More Fuel to the Fire

This is a discussion on More Fuel to the Fire within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Link to story: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/10/us.crime.ap/index.html Originally Posted by CNN WASHINGTON (AP) -- Americans were robbed and victimized by gun violence at greater rates last year than ...

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Thread: More Fuel to the Fire

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    More Fuel to the Fire

    Link to story:http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/10/us.crime.ap/index.html

    Quote Originally Posted by CNN
    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Americans were robbed and victimized by gun violence at greater rates last year than the year before, even though overall violent and property crime reached a 32-year low, the Justice Department said Sunday.

    Experts said these increases buttress reports from the FBI and many mayors and police chiefs that violent crime is beginning to rise after a long decline.

    Bush administration officials expressed concern but stressed that it was too soon to tell if an upward trend in violence had begun.

    Last year, there were two violent gun crimes for every 1,000 individuals, compared with 1.4 in 2004, according to the department's Bureau of Justice Statistics. There were 2.6 robberies for every 1,000 persons, compared with 2.1 the year before.

    "This report tells us more the serious events -- robbery and gun crimes -- increased and the FBI already told us homicides increased," said criminal justice professor James Alan Fox of Northeastern University.

    "So while the report shows the more numerous but least serious violence -- simple assaults, which is pushing and shoving -- went down, the mix got worse in terms of severity. That wasn't a very good trade-off," Fox said.

    A preliminary FBI report in June on crimes reported to police showed a 4.8 percent increase in the number of murders and 4.5 percent increase in the number of robberies in 2005.

    With congressional elections approaching, these reports could pose political problems for the administration, and department officials have been scurrying to understand and deal with the problem.

    Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty listened to complaints about dwindling federal anti-crime aid from several dozen mayors and police chiefs at a public meeting in Washington on August 30.

    Several days later, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales told reporters that cities will have to work harder but should not count on more federal money because of growing demands in the fight against terrorism.

    Nevertheless, Gonzales arranged a private meeting in New York last Thursday with three state police executives and the police chiefs of Los Angeles, California, Miami, Florida, and Providence, Rhode Island, The Associated Press learned.

    One of them, Providence's Dean Esserman, came away "impressed at how much he listened. He wasn't there to defend himself. He could have used the time to preach; instead he used it to hear our concerns."

    Esserman said most cities have fewer police officers now than in 2001, with big reductions in New York, Boston, Massachusetts, and Detroit, Michigan, "because of the loss of federal money."

    A Clinton administration program paid for local departments to hire community-oriented police officers, but the Bush administration stopped the money for such hiring.

    "I believe in homeland defense, but I also believe in crime fighting," Esserman said. "I don't want one neglected for the other. Every year we're losing 16,000 people to murder, mostly young people and mostly killed by guns, and that's more than three times the number that died at the World Trade Center" in the attacks of September 11, 2001.

    Professor Alfred Blumstein of Carnegie Mellon University said the rise in gun violence was particularly troubling.

    "A major police effort to confiscate guns helped bring down the surge in violent crime that occurred in the late 1980s and early 1990s," Blumstein said. "But gun distribution is easier now because we have begun to back off gun control."

    Backed by the National Rifle Association, the Bush administration has been cool toward gun control measures.

    The statistics bureau's victimization report found that the overall violent crime rate was unchanged in 2005 from the year before, at just over 21 crimes for every 1,000 individuals over age 12.

    The property crime rate fell in 2005 from 161 crimes to 154 for every 1,000 people because of a drop in household thefts. Both rates were the lowest since the survey began in 1973.

    McNulty noted the record-low rates but said "we are concerned about" in increase in the violent firearm crime rate. "Whether the increase ... marks a change in the trend toward reduced firearms victimization rates cannot be determined from one year's data," McNulty added.

    He said some cities are seeing violent crime increases and noted the department has several programs in which federal agents join state and local officers combating gangs and drug abuse.

    Unlike the FBI report culled from police blotters, the statistic bureau makes estimates based on interviews with 134,000 people, so it counts not only as reported crime but also crimes the police never hear about. Also, 53 percent of violent crimes and 60 percent of property crimes are never reported to the police.

    Statistician Shannan Catalano, who wrote the new report, said the increases in gun violence and robbery rates reinforce the FBI data and the anecdotal evidence from local officials. But she cautioned that so few people in the survey reported robberies that the bureau cannot be certain whether those figures represent a true increase or a random sampling variation.

    Because it is based on interviews with people about their firsthand experiences with crimes, the bureau's survey does not include homicides. It also tallies crimes such as simple assault and personal theft that are not covered by the FBI reports.
    Bolded the most idiotic part. Any chance for an emotional argument not based on facts. Anti-gun people are ridiculous.

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    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    Just one more reason why I have stopped trading for guns. I buy them and I keep them. I will never, ever, ever part with one of mine again, with possible exceptions being gifts to my kids.

    Some will always be out there who will tryto take them. They will have varying degrees of success, depending on the political winds.

    But they aren't getting ANY of mine. Ever. Period.

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    If The Day Comes...

    that I am told I have to give up my guns and ammunition...I suppose I would give them the ammunition FIRST!

    ret
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    Distinguished Member Array dimmak's Avatar
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    Good reason to stock up on guns parts and ammo..... ;o)
    "Ray Nagin is a colossal disappointment" - NRA/ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox.


    "...be water, my friend."

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    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    Now wait just one New York Minute! I remember reading a story just a few months back about how these crimes were down, and the only increase was in the more anti areas of the country.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon J View Post
    Now wait just one New York Minute! I remember reading a story just a few months back about how these crimes were down, and the only increase was in the more anti areas of the country.
    Well, I'm sure the gems known as Chicago, New York City, and Los Angelos do their fair share to drive everyone else's numbers up.

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    Sounds like more reasons to arm oneself.

    The cops sure arent getting the job done. The government isnt doing it.

    We as citizens need to try radically different tatics, ones that appeal to educated idiots, the kind that are in public office and tend to spend their entire career there...

    We shoud publicly thank them for bringing these statistics to our attention and for giving us the motivation to arm ourselves and and educate everyone we know about the issue to insure our personal safety.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Senior Member Array palmgopher's Avatar
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    i personally hate it when they do a national average because you get those absolute scum cities that make it look bad for the rest of us.

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    Senior Member Array Zundfolge's Avatar
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    Jeebus ... whats clear is that the large number of criminals that called New Orleans home got distributed all over the country ... of COURSE crime went up slightly.

    MORE GUN CONTROL DOES NOT MEAN LESS CRIME!!!
    (yeah, I know, I'm preachin' to the choir here but its just so darn frustrating to hear the same old lies year after year)

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    Saw the story this morning in the paper, and my first thought was "trouble". The Brady group will be going wild with this!
    Rick

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  12. #11
    Member Array Bryan's Avatar
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    The real point is that the anti's are elites pacifists. The agenda is not about guns but about robbing people of their right to defend themselves(not the elitist though). Remember almost the entire rest of the would thinks that individual self defence is unjustified period. They won't stop untill the rest of us think the way they do. Lets not let them.
    -Diplomacy: The art of saying nice dogie until you can find a rock.
    -The truth is a three edged sword.
    -Your brain is your primary weapon everything else is just a tool.
    -When the only tool you have is a hammer then everything starts to look like a nail.

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    Member Array osanmike's Avatar
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    I just had an awesome idea. Since disarming law abiding citizens would lower crime so much, imagine how much less there would be if we also disarmed the police and military. Talk about utopia.
    "No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the Congress is in session."
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    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zundfolge View Post
    Jeebus ... whats clear is that the large number of criminals that called New Orleans home got distributed all over the country ... of COURSE crime went up slightly.

    MORE GUN CONTROL DOES NOT MEAN LESS CRIME!!!
    (yeah, I know, I'm preachin' to the choir here but its just so darn frustrating to hear the same old lies year after year)

    +1 on that.

    The question I would like to see an anti politicion answer on national TV is:

    "If banning guns is the answer to gun crime, when will it work for already illegal street drugs?"
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

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    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Lies, damn lies and Statistics

    Obviously an agenda here. The stats are too general, with a sample of less than 1/20th of one percent.

    I would want to see a breakdown by city/state etc, as well as sample size from each area. The fact that this info doesn't appear to be there makes me think that we are seeing places like DC, LA, NYC, Chicago et al spiking the figures. If the evidence was in their favor, they would have published the breakdown.

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