Virginia glove compartment et al storage

[DaveH]

A member of this blog asked me to research what a secure container or compartment within the vehicle under Virginia law meant.

As you may know, the VA AG only provides opinions to elected officials and senior admin officials. Therefore we had to get the question ask by someone the AG would provide an opinion to.

We now have the answer. It does not have to be locked.


Summery:

"It is my opinion that, provided the handgun is properly secured in a container or compartment
within the vehicle, persons who may lawfully possess a firerum but have not been issued a concealed
weapons permit may possess, in a vehicle, a handgun that is loaded and the handgun may remain within
reach of a driver or passenger under such conditions. It further is my opinion that, for a handgun to be
"secured in a container or compartment," such storage tool need not be locked. Finally, it is my opinion
that an individual may not keep a firearm stored in his vehicle at a place of employment if there is a
company policy or signage prohibiting firearms on the premises."

Full reply and discussion at:
http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions%...1%20Newman.pdf

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Zsnake]

Hey, thanks for the up-date. I received your PM a few hours ago and passed it along to my cronies.

I appreciate all you do to keep us informed.

[RayBar]

Vehicle carry without a recognized permit is allowed IF the firearm is in plain view in a snapped holster or if it is concealed under certain specific conditions. These conditions refer to a firearm that is securely encased or is not readily accessible. Not readily accessible means locked in the trunk of a car or the storage compartment of a pick-up truck or rv. Either of these conditions is legal for non-licensed carry. But firearms concealed on the person while occupying the vehicle is illegal. This would include under ones clothing or under the seat. The State also prohibits most businesses from preventing customers or employees from possessing firearms in their locked vehicles while those vehicles are parked on company ground. Floridas preemption law prevents localities from regulating most aspects of firearm ownership. With the exception of certain zoning laws,firearm regulation is uniform throughout the State for permittees and non-permittees. No open carry. From Travelers guide to the firearm laws of the fifty States.

[ctr]

Not too thrilled about the private property interpretation. Seems wrong to me, and a slippery slope.

[RayBar]

Sorry about the wrong State thing. Heres Virginia. Person without recognized permits: A loaded hand gun may be carried in a vehicle if the wepon is in plain view or secured in a container or vehicle compartment. " Vehicle compartment" would include a handgun secured in a glove compartment,console box, or trunk. A loaded handgun could also be kept in a briefcase or similar container situated anywhere in the vehicle,including about ones person. Container carry is a blanket exception that includes any position.

[DaveH]

Vehicle carry without a recognized permit is allowed IF the firearm is in plain view in a snapped holster or if it is concealed under certain specific conditions. These conditions refer to a firearm that is securely encased or is not readily accessible. Not readily accessible means locked in the trunk of a car or the storage compartment of a pick-up truck or rv. Either of these conditions is legal for non-licensed carry. But firearms concealed on the person while occupying the vehicle is illegal. This would include under ones clothing or under the seat. The State also prohibits most businesses from preventing customers or employees from possessing firearms in their locked vehicles while those vehicles are parked on company ground. Floridas preemption law prevents localities from regulating most aspects of firearm ownership. With the exception of certain zoning laws,firearm regulation is uniform throughout the State for permittees and non-permittees. No open carry. From Travelers guide to the firearm laws of the fifty States.

Are you talking about Virginia?

I'm not talking about the whole USofA. I'm talking about Virginia, only.

This is an Virginia AG opinion of a bill that VCDL was instrumental in getting passed into law back in 2010 -- amending § 18.2-308 to add § 18.2-308(B)(lO)/

Some LEO's were interpreting "secured" in a container or compartment to mean locked or otherwise not readily accessible. § 18.2-308(B)(10) provides an exception to that the prohibition when carrying a handgun in a vehicle -- in Virginia.

The GA considered "locked in a container or compartment'' when considering the bill. However, "secured in a container or compartment" was the wording that was ultimately adopted at the the request of the Governor. The rejection of "locked" means that "secure" doesn't mean "locked." By choosing "secured" instead of "locked," the General Assembly clearly intended that a handgun may be carried in a vehicle without requiring the container or compartment storing it to be locked. See LIS > Bill Tracking > HB885 > 2010 session and Bill Tracking - 2010 session > Legislation for the legislative history.

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It seems that the PDF URL in my OP isn't working.

Go to May 2012 Opinion Index drill down to opinion 11-111 addressed to he Honorable Stephen D. Newman, Member, Senate of Virginia.

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FWIIW, there is no law, in Virginia, that OC must be in a "snapped holster", either.

What does your statement, "No open carry" apply to? Virginia is an Open Carry State. If one can legally possess a firearm, one can OC it, in Virginia. Even youngsters under proper supervision can OC. Suspect that there will be some at our picnic on Sunday, June 3rd, when we will be celebrating the formal removal of the open carry ban in State Parks -- in Virginia.

[DaveH]

Virginia State Police have updated the VSP web site to show Attorney General Cuccinelli's opinion that containers and compartments in a motor vehicle holding loaded firearms do NOT need to be locked:

Virginia State Police - Transporting Firearms through Virginia

[DaveH]

Not too thrilled about the private property interpretation. Seems wrong to me, and a slippery slope.

I'm not thrilled about it either. However, given the strong support of property right here in Virginia, it will be an uphill battle to change the law.

As to being a slippery slope, it has been that way for years. Nothing new. No movement on that issue.

[ctr]

I'm not thrilled about it either. However, given the strong support of property right here in Virginia, it will be an uphill battle to change the law.

As to being a slippery slope, it has been that way for years. Nothing new. No movement on that issue.

Agreed, but a fella can always hope for more repeals of the nanny state.

[Ram Rod]

The letter of the law and what the LEOs interpret in the field can be two different things. In my state there are also laws that pertain to carrying weapons in vehicles without a permit of any kind so long as you're a resident of the state. Accessibility of the weapon by the driver of the vehicle and separation of the ammo from the weapon seem to be key points whereas the actual intent of the driver could be made clear that it's not being carried as a weapon with intent to use as a weapon. Of course every state is different, and then there are sometimes more local laws that take precedence. One of these days, we might all be on the same page.
Here is where I might make a point about your likes or dislikes about "locked storage" and how it applies to you and your carry in your vehicle. It may be very important to have a locked storage especially when it comes to you carrying in your vehicle and your vehicle being parked on private (or company) property when it comes down to company policy and enforcement. I have worked for companies (and currently do) where the policy states no weapons allowed on the property including the parking lots. Do they actually have a right to search your vehicle? When would they have a reason to? Thing is........you have a right to carry a weapon on you or in your vehicle when you are in public and this means going to and from work. If a company parking lot is accessible to the public, then that pretty much means you are parking your vehicle in a public place instead of on private property. I think the state of Oklahoma has cleared this up by law recently. Now....to your lockable storage. If........I mean if.....there were ever any search of your vehicle initiated by your employer for violation of policy (with reason), then whatever is under lock either demands your specific permission to search or a search warrant from local authorities. I highly doubt any corporate entity would go to the trouble much less take the risk of being sued over an illegal search. I have never heard of anything of this sort going through Arkansas courts nor any precedent being set. Just play it smart, obey the laws to the best of your ability, realize there are grey areas around most laws and company policies, and above all, be confident in what you do and how you do it and avoid being confronted with decisions you should never have to make. A lockable storage device in your vehicle for your legally carried firearm could be beneficial in some circumstances. You simply need to determine when and where even though you may not be 'required' to do so under law.

"secured in a container or compartment," such storage tool need not be locked. Finally, it is my opinion
that an individual may not keep a firearm stored in his vehicle at a place of employment if there is a
company policy or signage prohibiting firearms on the premises."

An opinion is not a law. There should also be state laws regarding to what extent "places of employment" and "company policies" have effect and whether or not those private policies actually adhere to state laws or violate them and the grey areas surrounding those as well. I'm just saying. Keep on digging and you'll find plenty of your own state's laws that even violate other laws or your own state's constitution. Your moral obligation is only to do your best with information given. Remember.....operating a motor vehicle and having a driver's license is simply a privilege in most every state....that means your driving privileges can be taken away at any time even without reasons. Your constitutional rights are not privileges and they create more waves in the pond. Nothing ever seems to be cut and dried as far as laws are concerned. Things were designed this way so that all of us would always be subjects and at risk for violation of the law. It's kind of like you never actually own your property because you have to keep paying taxes on it or loose it.

[RayBar]

Sorry,my bad,that was FL.

[DaveH]

Not a problem!

Sorry, I missed your update / correction update.

[peckman28]

Not too thrilled about the private property interpretation. Seems wrong to me, and a slippery slope.

Property rights are the bedrock of freedom. If the owner of the property (and I do mean specifically genuine private property, not anything owned by government in any capacity) insists that you disarm to be on his/her property, that is and should be their right. In a real free society you are just as free not to associate with said person. I only wish here in MD we could split hairs over such comparatively minor things, since having weapons in your vehicle almost anywhere here will land you in major legal trouble...

[DaveH]

If the owner of the property (and I do mean specifically genuine private property, not anything owned by government in any capacity) insists that you disarm to be on his/her property, that is and should be their right.

This is a very tricky issue, IMHO.

Figuratively, I want my cake and eat it to.

I tend to fully agree on that right for property not open to the public, your home, your farm, etc.

However, when it comes to businesses, I not so sure. When one opens a business that is open to the public one automatically surrender some of those "rights" as a condition of doing business. Just try replacing a gun-buster sign on your store with a sign that says "Whites Only", "No Women Admitted", etc.

For that matter, in some States even some private clubs are restricted as to membership requirements -- particularly, if they have food service or an ABC license.

Then you have all the zoning issues, land-use laws, the National Environmental Policy Act, the National Historic Preservation Act, etc.

Why is a Constitutional right given less weight?

[NRAInstrctor]

Glad to see that Ken agreed with what the rest of us have been teaching for the past year! LOL!