UN Arms Treaty (MERGED)

This is a discussion on UN Arms Treaty (MERGED) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I set up a doomsday count down timer on my laptop to tell me how much longer it is to 27 July. I just want ...

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  1. #211
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I set up a doomsday count down timer on my laptop to tell me how much longer it is to 27 July. I just want to see if the lights go out in the country and their is no food on the shelves at the stores on that fateful day.
    Sig 210 likes this.

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  3. #212
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    Dont worry. Most people could care less. They'll just plod on like cattle and be totally oblivious.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  4. #213
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Dont worry. Most people could care less. They'll just plod on like cattle and be totally oblivious.
    Most likely true

  5. #214
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    In the meantime, check this out. It's the foundation for UN treatys on Gun Control.

    Freedom from War (1961)

    Fronted and signed by John F. Kennedy back in 1961. Read it and see where we are headed.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  6. #215
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    In the meantime, check this out. It's the foundation for UN treatys on Gun Control.

    Freedom from War (1961)

    Fronted and signed by John F. Kennedy back in 1961. Read it and see where we are headed.
    I have read it before...deals mostly with nuclear arms and national forces being disarmed....look...you are going to look at certain parts and come to your own nefarious conclusions. The intent of the document in my mind was to stop nation states from warring with each other and becoming aggressors. They are not talking about personal arms or how countries deal with thier own 2 A laws.

    These paragraphs titled:
    First, there must be immediate disarmament action:
    Second, all disarmament obligations must be subject to effective international controls:
    Third, adequate peace-keeping machinery must be established:
    are all talking about national infrastructures to produce the means to wage war.

    yada yada...yeah, it COULD mean the UN can say no guns in the world. But it don't. I bet folks got their panties in a wad back in 1961 also. But look....has this document affected our 2A rights? Export/import control...sure. But that is international agreements. The laws of the US were not affected....just like this impotent treaty will be like.

    The only true reference that could cause worry is the following:
    (c) The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited except for those of agreed types and quantities to be used by the U.N. Peace Force and those required to maintain internal order. All other armaments would be destroyed or converted to peaceful purposes.
    As far as I know this document was produced by the the State Department for the President to review. I may be wrong but I do not beleive it was asked for by the President. I do not see any reference to Kennedy endorsing it or signing it. If I am in error please let me know.

  7. #216
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    This nonsensical stuff is all over the internet and yet, no one seems to bother to go to Politifact.com or factcheck.org (Dick Cheney's favorite site) to find out if all the BS is true or possible.

    First, any treaty the US signs and ratifies CANNOT BYPASS THE CONSTITUTION; that is settled law.

    Second, any treaty has to garner the approval of 2/3 of the Senate. Considering that they can't even pass anything with a simple majority, the odds on getting 2/3 vote on a controversial treaty are absurdly small.

    Third, 46% of American households have guns; how do you think they will vote?

    For starters, Obama wouldn’t be able to “bypass” Congress. All international treaties that the U.S. agrees to require the approval of two-thirds of the senators present before the treaties can be ratified. Those would surely be tough votes to get if the treaty banned all firearms. Last year, in fact, 13 Democratic senators, led by Jon tester of Montana, wrote a letter to Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton saying that they wouldn’t support a treaty unless they were guaranteed that it wouldn’t “in any way regulate the domestic manufacture, possession or sales of firearms or ammunition” in the U.S. That’s in addition to 45 Republican senators, led by Jerry Moran of Kansas, who also wrote a letter saying that “any treaty resulting from the Arms Trade Treaty process that seeks in any way to regulate the domestic manufacture, assembly, transfer, or purchase of firearms, ammunition, and related items would be completely unacceptable to us.”

    Similar debunking info is available at Snopes.com
    snopes.com: Small Arms Treaty

    And at politifact.org which has labeled it 'pants on fire.'
    http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...lary-clinton-/


    This silly business makes for fun postings but if you believe this is a real threat, I have a stock of aluminum foil that can be made into really great hats that will keep the enemy's thought waves from talking to you...
    No but the completely unconstitutional healthcare law which goes against the written words of the limitations on government in black and white in that same document was made law and no one is taking the supreme court to the gallows over this. The supreme court is not the final word of anything. WE ARE let me stress this more... WE ARE WE ARE WE ARE WE ARE WE ARE WE ARE!!! NOT GOVERNMENT POLITICIANS AND JUDGES whom we put there. We do not have a Grand Ayatollah, we have a government of the people by the people for the people. Or at least we used to.

    We are sheepishly putting up with all of this garbage because we the people are not people but sheep. I have given up on America and decided that I will do whatever I can to support my family and their safety from both men and government. When the revolution comes I will be ready but until someone with the leadership and resources can make that happen to take our government back to the people from whence it came there is NOTHING I can do about it.

    So any treaty they pass will trump the constitution because the sheep of American are too numerous and have no idea what true liberty is. I read an interesting study that claimed that nearly 91% of American's are not ready for real liberty as our fathers gave us. So darn sad.

    Alone you cant do squat but unified you can do massive amounts. I am not going to be a keyboard commando. The Bill of Rights does not have Spec Ops training and the muscle to defend it's self. It is a set of ideals on plain paper sealed in blood and made absolute law. A law that must be cherished and protected. But I am having a hard time finding the protectors in this day and age. The government has been allowed to grow so undeniably powerful and large that it is a super Armageddon behemoth that must be reduced in size if liberty is to survive. Just like a nuclear reaction, once critical mass has been reached, it is impossible to stop the inevitable meltdown. Our government has reached critical mass. The only thing that could take our government down would be total worldwide systematic collapse of everything and I mean everything. THen and only then would the people be able to take us back to founding principles. But we are a dying breed.

    This is America, land of the American Idol, Jersey Shore, and Social Fairness.

    Land of the free and home of the brave died from the cancerous infection called sheeple.

    Anyways I am going to log out now. Because once again all of this jibbering back and forth about philosophy does nothing to better my families well being, my Dogs, or my liberty. We either band together under leadership and liberty or we can keep punching away at these keyboards making no difference and wait to be sheared and slaughtered like the sheep most of us are.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  8. #217
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    yada yada...yeah, it COULD mean the UN can say no guns in the world.
    Sometimes the obvious is not so obvious eh?

    Since the document clearly outlines reducing the armys to basically nothing, giving the U.N. total control of arms, and eliminating whole classes of arms, do you really think that private ownership of weapons will allowed?

    If you do, I've got some ocean front property here in Arkansas that I'll sell you cheap.

    The UN has been after your guns and mine since they started because they want to be the big dogs on the block. How they get there is irrevelant. When they get there is irrevelant, they will get there. No that we have people on our own side agreeing with them, volunteering to help, how long can it be?

    Thats the real issue at hand. All of this naysaying,it gonna happen here, sticking my head in the sand stuff is exactly how they get away with this crap.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  9. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Sometimes the obvious is not so obvious eh?

    Since the document clearly outlines reducing the armys to basically nothing, giving the U.N. total control of arms, and eliminating whole classes of arms, do you really think that private ownership of weapons will allowed?

    If you do, I've got some ocean front property here in Arkansas that I'll sell you cheap.

    The UN has been after your guns and mine since they started because they want to be the big dogs on the block. How they get there is irrevelant. When they get there is irrevelant, they will get there. No that we have people on our own side agreeing with them, volunteering to help, how long can it be?

    Thats the real issue at hand. All of this naysaying,it gonna happen here, sticking my head in the sand stuff is exactly how they get away with this crap.
    First of all I was talking about the Freedom From War doc which you have said was fronted and signed by Kennedy which I can not find any fact of. Second I have never once dismissed the idea that the UN wants to ban weapons and have a one world government. So let us first get our facts straight and not make assumptions about what I think.

    As far as naysaying......that just means that on every single issue that is brought up I am not going to get my panties in a wad over it. Concern yes. Do I do research and read..yeas. I am also level headed to wait till 27 July to find out what happens. I have already done what I could by letting my elected officials know where I stand.

    Back to the Freedom from War document..it was not a UN draft...it was produced by someone in our government so I do not see how that is relevent to this discussion. If you do then fine..so let us address what that document did.....nothing. Can you cite any laws or policies that came from it that has affected our right to bear arms.

    Again, not sticking my head in the sand...there are many things that have affected us and I am concerned about those and hope they get repealed.

    As far as your hatred and distrust for this POTUS. I am halfway there with you on some things. But every president has had a hand in gun control including the god of the republican part ROnald Reagan.

  10. #219
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    The point of the article is that the UN was talking about this stuff as far back as 1961.

    The other point of this whole thread is that it is only going to get worse...not better. Now that we have an administration that would volunteer its authority to the U.N. in spite of the fact that they are elected, not appointed, that will only serve to embolden the yahoos in the UN to think that we actually care about what they say.
    With idiots on the council like Iran,no good what so ever will come from it.
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  11. #220
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The point of the article is that the UN was talking about this stuff as far back as 1961.
    And 61 years later can you cite from the document you posted what rights have been curtailed by it???? And the document was produced by the US government..not the UN. Again, not debating that the UN wants to control us,,but just trying to see the facts.

  12. #221
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    And 61 years later can you cite from the document you posted what rights have been curtailed by it???? Again, not debating that the UN wants to control us,,but just trying to see the facts.
    I think his point is simply that they have wanted this for decades, and the wonderful administration we have now is going to do everything in it's power to give it to them.

  13. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    I think his point is simply that they have wanted this for decades, and the wonderful administration we have now is going to do everything in it's power to give it to them.
    Then just say that the UN has been trying to do this for years instead of bring up a document not produced by the UN but by our own government which as far as I know was not signed nor endorsed by Kennedy like it said in the post. And also he nor anybody can show how this document has affected guns rights at all.

    Just the facts ma'am. I would have been satisifed with "the UN sucks and have been up to this for years". If the document was produced by the UN it would be relevent.

    Now, the document would be relevent if the discussion was on how internal US policy has been trying to curtail gun rights and it showed how a policy or document had any affect. Producing a document like that only shows that though a government agency can put something forward, the sky did not fall. But I guess 61 years later some of us are still waiting for the sky to fall. I myself am waiting till 27 July to see what the heck is actually in the treaty language.

  14. #223
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    Plenty of info on it, look it up. John F Kennedy and Freedom from War. He wrote it. He presented it.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  15. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Plenty of info on it, look it up. John F Kennedy and Freedom from War. He wrote it. He presented it.
    Your google skills must be better than mine.....I googled and still can't find where he wrote and signed it and presented it...BTW:who did he present it to?
    Look, I tried looking it up. I can;t find it. You obviously have the source. Would you mind posting it? I do like the facts..if he did what you said I would like to know...

    Actually this is getting off topic. If you have a credible source that says that Kennedy wrote it and took it to the UN that is cool...still only validates what I have said......it amounted to nothing then...and 61 years later. Just PM or post me the info. I don't like mysteries LOL. I do like facts and not afraid of them.

    I did find three sources...all might say they are right wing or on the edge of conspiracy type sites. One says the document was secretly courried to the UN, another said he presented it to the UN General Secratary, and another said he presented it to the General Assembly. Neith of them had any sources or references....so I guess pick the one you like best LOL (I don;t mean you personally).

  16. #225
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    I did actually find the transcript of his speech..It is obviously based off of the document...mostly talked about nukes though. Anyway...the UN (or specifically the member nations including he obvious ones) blew the proposal off.
    Anyway...enough of the off topic. Would be interesting to see if his speech was a bluff or not. Funny how we take politicians at their word when we want to hear what we want to hear. But again the end result was nothing. Absolutely nothing except the intent of what some folks or organizations want to do. We can't change that. You can't stop a person or organization from having ideas. We can try to make sure that their ideas do not come to fruition.

    Dang...just like trying to read a piece of news from Mr. LaPierre.....got to do your own research to see what the deal is LOL

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