UN Arms Treaty (MERGED)

This is a discussion on UN Arms Treaty (MERGED) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; How do I sort out the facts from fiction? Is it a ploy to collect money and email addresses or is it real? Like this: ...

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  1. #226
    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    ...so What is the TRUTH?

    How do I sort out the facts from fiction?

    Is it a ploy to collect money and email addresses or is it real?
    Like this:
    So if you haven't already, please watch Congressman Broun's video for all the details.

    If half of what I have been hearing is fact, "they" are getting too close to banning another large block of guns, sure would hate to see that happen in my lifetime or for my kids and grand kids of course.

    What to do?
    What to do?
    LEARN something today so you can TEACH something tomorrow.
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  3. #227
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Your google skills must be better than mine.....I googled and still can't find where he wrote and signed it and presented it...BTW:who did he present it to?
    I did some mild searching and never found any real documentation that JFK wrote and presented any such thing to the UN. However I did find this document (note is from the State Department and not the office of the President):
    Freedom From War
    The United States Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World
    U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
    DEPARTMENT OF STATE PUBLICATION 7277
    Disarmament Series 5
    Released September 1961
    Freedom from War (1961)
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  4. #228
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    I did some mild searching and never found any real documentation that JFK wrote and presented any such thing to the UN. However I did find this document (note is from the State Department and not the office of the President):
    Freedom From War
    The United States Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World
    U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
    DEPARTMENT OF STATE PUBLICATION 7277
    Disarmament Series 5
    Released September 1961
    Freedom from War (1961)
    Thanks...but tha is the document we have been talking about....anway Hotgun and I are good LOL. I did find a speech Kennedy did make to the UN

  5. #229
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    ... General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World
    Great! Call me once this "peaceful world" arrives. Then we'll talk.
    HotGuns likes this.
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  6. #230
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    July 27th..... the treaty WILL be ratified and signed.

    But wait.... there is no way obamacare could be found Constitutional.... It was (even though it clearly is NOT 100% NOT regardless of what that whack job failure of oath defiling justice roberts sais')

    Let see ... oh it will pass .... it will pass.... This is so much deeper than all you patriotic "it cant and wont happen here" believers. It will!
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  7. #231
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Just got the latest email from NRA-ILA. Now they are saying that even if we don't sign the treaty it can affect gun ownership in our country because countries that sign the treaty might not ship arms to us. DUH! That is no new revelation. Those of us that don't give a hoot about us signing the treaty have long acknoledged that. COuntries can do that no on their own with out a treaty by changing their own import.export controls and laws. We do that already in the great old USA with restrictions on exports. I am just curious to what end Mr LaPierre wa trying to achieve at the UN in his speech. Of course they would blow him off, just like we would blow off any person from another country telling us what to do. This is a quote form the email:
    The NRA has spent nearly 20 years lobbying against U.N. attacks on civilian firearms ownership. As a U.N.-recognized NGO (non-governmental organization) we have attended meetings and conferences and we have spoken out directly at the U.N. about our unfailing opposition to any treaty that infringes on the Second Amendment rights of American citizens.
    We are not interested in the UN so why on earth does he think they would be interested in him? or tthe NRA? Or our second A?
    I am still trying to figure out what he needs more money for. There have been and still are more than enough senators on record saying they would not ratify the treaty.
    Sig 210 and DoctorBob like this.

  8. #232
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    The Supreme Court has already decided many years ago that a treaty does not supersede the Constitution.
    Correct! Read the editorial in this month's ACLDN journal

    "No treaty executed by the U.S. government can trump the protections of the U.S. Constitution, as a matter of law."

    "...Treaties are treated by the law like any other Congressional enactment, with the exception of the fact that they need to be agreed to by other nations. Because they are on par with other laws passed by Congress, they cannot violate the Constitution or deprive citizens of rights protected under the Constitution."

    the case of Reid v. Covert, 354 U.S. 1 (1957) (see Reid v. Covert, 354 U.S. 1 (1957)).
    'Guerir quelquefois, soulager souvent, consoler toujours.'

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  9. #233
    Senior Member Array Cokeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    Correct! Read the editorial in this month's ACLDN journal

    "No treaty executed by the U.S. government can trump the protections of the U.S. Constitution, as a matter of law."

    "...Treaties are treated by the law like any other Congressional enactment, with the exception of the fact that they need to be agreed to by other nations. Because they are on par with other laws passed by Congress, they cannot violate the Constitution or deprive citizens of rights protected under the Constitution."

    the case of Reid v. Covert, 354 U.S. 1 (1957) (see Reid v. Covert, 354 U.S. 1 (1957)).
    Let's see how the president gets around that.
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  10. #234
    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
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    Hillary to sign small arms treaty

    Dick Morris has an excellent three minute video here on the strategy to introduce gun control without legislation or treaty ratification:
    Hillary&#39;s End Run on Gun Control! Dick Morris TV: Lunch ALERT! - YouTube

    He also makes it very easy to contact your elected representatives and express your thoughts:
    Sign The Petition To Stop The US From Signing The Arms Trade Treaty! | Dickmorris.com

  11. #235
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    She can sign it all she wants. Doesn't mean a thing. When the Senate ratifies it, then we can get worried.
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  12. #236
    Distinguished Member Array tangoseal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    She can sign it all she wants. Doesn't mean a thing. When the Senate ratifies it, then we can get worried.
    and they will.
    "I believe that the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms must not be infringed if liberty in America is to survive." - Ronald Reagan

  13. #237
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    She can sign it all she wants. Doesn't mean a thing. When the Senate ratifies it, then we can get worried.
    Thats what King George III said about the Declaration of Independence.

    Michael

  14. #238
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    Dick Morris is a disgraced prostitute chasing former member of the Clinton administration: Morris worked for the Clintons for 20 years. Its laughable that gun rights advocates find a guy who chased prostitutes with Bill Clinton to be credible.

    Dick Morris - SourceWatch

  15. #239
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangoseal View Post
    July 27th..... the treaty WILL be ratified and signed.

    But wait.... there is no way obamacare could be found Constitutional.... It was (even though it clearly is NOT 100% NOT regardless of what that whack job failure of oath defiling justice roberts sais')

    Let see ... oh it will pass .... it will pass.... This is so much deeper than all you patriotic "it cant and wont happen here" believers. It will!
    Look, no disrespect but if you are going to rant please have facts. There is no way the treaty can be signed and ratified on the 27th of July because the Senate has not even scheduled it for debate, let alone a vote.
    If sir, you know something we naysayers don't please post it. Like a schedule for the Senate would be nice.

    Here in lies the problem when folks one either side speak..they don't have the facts.
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  16. #240
    Member Array Rookie53's Avatar
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    Listen to the video. A prior treaty holds that a signed treaty is valid until it is voted up or down by the Senate or is renounced by the president. If the Dems retain the Senate, the vote will never happen and Obama will never renounce the treaty, so the treaty becomes effective until voted upon or renounced by the president.

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