UN Arms Treaty (MERGED)

This is a discussion on UN Arms Treaty (MERGED) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Maybe this'll help, but maybe it won't. I spent most of Thursday working the story for Examiner and TheGunMag.com Int’l gun control lobby sets sights ...

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  1. #256
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    Maybe this'll help, but maybe it won't.
    I spent most of Thursday working the story for Examiner and TheGunMag.com



    Int’l gun control lobby sets sights on ammo, 2A at United Nations

    The gloves are definitely off at the United Nations as negotiations continue over the proposed global Arms Trade Treaty (ATT), where Bellevue’s Alan Gottlieb and Julianne Versnel are raising alarms about a handout distributed Thursday morning by Control Arms, one of the gun control groups pressing for the most extreme provisions.

    Int


    Update: ATT draft sets up new gun control bureaucracy

    The final text of the proposed global Arms Trade Treaty sets up a new global bureaucracy, called a “secretariat,” whose job will be to “assist States Parties in the effective implementation of this treaty.”

    Update: Final ATT draft sets up new U.N. gun control bureaucracy - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

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  3. #257
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Well, time to sit back and see how it goes.
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  4. #258
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    Thumbs up No agreement on a treaty

    The Volokh Conspiracy » Arms Trade Treaty conference ends without agreement

    Arms Trade Treaty conference ends without agreement

    David Kopel • July 27, 2012 5:47 pm


    The weeks-long conference at the United Nations to produce an Arms Trade Treaty is ending without the creation of a treaty. None of the draft treaties which have circulated in the past several days came remotely close to finding consensus support.
    The impossibility of achieving consensus involved a wide variety of issues and nations, far beyond the Second Amendment concerns that have been raised by many American citizens.

    The 2001 UN Programme of Action on Small Arms remains in effect. Over the last two decades, a large gun control infrastructure has grown up in the United Nations, not only in the headquarters building, but also within many of the UN various commissions and departments. Likewise, there are a significant number of NGOs which have a strong commitment to global gun control, and to using international law and the UN to solve what they consider to be the problem of excessive gun ownership in the United States. The NGOs and their UN allies have successfully used the 2001 PoA to sharply restrict gun ownership in some parts of the world, and they would have used the ATT for the same purpose. That they did not succeed in creating an ATT may be very disappointing to them; they are not going to go away, or relent in the pursuit of their objectives.

    But in their pursuit, they are not going to have the new weapon of an ATT. This is good news for human rights worldwide, especially for the fundamental human right of self-defense against violent criminals, and against violent criminal tyrannical governments.
    Be sure to read the the item linked to at the end of the quote. I have posted links to it before. It's long but a great reading;

    http://davekopel.org/2A/LawRev/The-H...lf-Defense.pdf

    I. INTRODUCTION

    “Any law, international or municipal, which prohibits recourse to force, is necessarily limited by the right of self-defense.”4

    Is there a human right to defend oneself against a violent attacker? Is there an individual right to arms under international law? Conversely, are governments guilty of human rights violations if they do not enact strict gun control laws?

    The United Nations and some non-governmental organizations have declared that there is no human right to self-defense or to the possession of defensive arms.5 The UN and allied NGOs further declare that insufficiently restrictive firearms laws are themselves a human rights violation, so all governments must sharply restrict citiz en firearms possession.6

    This Article investigates the legal status of self-defense by examining a broad variety of sources of international law. Based on those sources, the Article suggests that personal self-defense is a well-established human right under international law and is an important foundation of international law itself.

    SNIP [quite a few well reasoned pages]

    To examine the evidence is to discover what the Special Rapporteur so artfully concealed—the overwhelming consensus among the sources of international law, from ancient times to the present, among diverse legal systems, religions, and nations: self-defense is a fundamental human right.

    This Article does not claim that the evidence produced thus far proves the existence of a universal international human right to possess and carry firearms in all circumstances. It does suggest that the evidence of an international human right to self-defense is clear. The existence of a right of personal defense undoubtedly must imply some right to defensive training, and to the possession of some type of defensive arms. However, this Article has only attempted to suggest some possible lines of exploration for subsequent scholarly analysis of the derivative rights to defensive arms and defensive training. It does seem apparent that it would be a violation of human rights law for a government to forbid self-defense, to forbid defensive training, or to forbid the possession of reasonably necessary defensive arms. No government has the legitimate authority to forbid a person from exercising her human right to defend herself against a violent attack or to forbid her from taking the steps and acquiring the tools necessary to exercise that right.


    Last edited by DaveH; July 27th, 2012 at 08:21 PM.
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  5. #259
    Senior Member Array Fausty's Avatar
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    some good news.
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  6. #260
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    This treaty idea never had a chance.

    The US demanded that it be a CONSENSUS treaty which means that every country in the UN would have to agree to it. No chance that Russia, China, North Korea, etc. would go along with that.

    If passed and signed by the US, it would NEVER have been ratified by the Senate -- 58 senators had already decided that they wouldn't vote for it.

    If it was signed and ratified, it would NOT supercede the second amendment. That is settled law.

    All the angst that organizations like the NRA, etc. tried to induce was phony from the start. And those people who said that it would be signed and ratified today were just plain wrong.

    Take a deep breath and relax and remember this the next time someone tries to get your dander up.
    DaveH, DPro.40, suntzu and 1 others like this.
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  7. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    This treaty idea never had a chance.

    The US demanded that it be a CONSENSUS treaty which means that every country in the UN would have to agree to it. No chance that Russia, China, North Korea, etc. would go along with that.

    If passed and signed by the US, it would NEVER have been ratified by the Senate -- 58 senators had already decided that they wouldn't vote for it.

    If it was signed and ratified, it would NOT supercede the second amendment. That is settled law.

    All the angst that organizations like the NRA, etc. tried to induce was phony from the start. And those people who said that it would be signed and ratified today were just plain wrong.

    Take a deep breath and relax and remember this the next time someone tries to get your dander up.
    I have been breathing just fine the whole time Just waiting for the NRA and GOA to claim victory..........

  8. #262
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    I'll admit, I'm not as involved with politics, but being a new gun owner and wanting to be a responsible one has lead me to slowly get into this. Glad some good news came from this.
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  9. #263
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I have been breathing just fine the whole time Just waiting for the NRA and GOA to claim victory..........
    Yup.

    Why I waited until comment # 259 to post.
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  10. #264
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    DaveH:

    I wish you'd quit hogging this thread and cluttering it up! You're just a man of many words.
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  11. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    DaveH:

    I wish you'd quit hogging this thread and cluttering it up! You're just a man of many words.
    He was using me for his mouthpiece tongiht
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  12. #266
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    Side tracked for now but by no means over. it will be back. May have a different name different approach but it will be back.

  13. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Side tracked for now but by no means over. it will be back. May have a different name different approach but it will be back.
    Of course it will. Folks have been wanting disarmament in all shape and forms for centuries...why do folks think this is a new concept...get use to it. It is life on this planet.

    This reminds me of Harold Camping and every time he tried to predict the world would end. When it did not on the dates he predicted he said it was a mistake and he tried another date, then another.........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    The guards at those camps are voluptuous females dressed in boots and black leather. They carry whips, chains and handcuffs.
    This part I don't mind at all.

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  16. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I have been breathing just fine the whole time Just waiting for the NRA and GOA to claim victory..........
    Email from the NRA this morning (Yes, I'm a member) claimed they defeated the ATT and asked for a donation....
    'Guerir quelquefois, soulager souvent, consoler toujours.'

    "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." (John Steinbeck)

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