UN Arms Treaty (MERGED)

This is a discussion on UN Arms Treaty (MERGED) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by DoctorBob Email from the NRA this morning (Yes, I'm a member) claimed they defeated the ATT and asked for a donation.... NRA-ILA ...

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Thread: UN Arms Treaty (MERGED)

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    Email from the NRA this morning (Yes, I'm a member) claimed they defeated the ATT and asked for a donation....
    NRA-ILA | NRA Stops U.N. Arms Trade Treaty
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  3. #272
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I am so sorry guys but the NRA is full of it..I said this months ago they would claim victory. SOmebody tell me how they prevented the UN from reaching a concensus on the treaty? I am so sure that Russia, China, Syria, Iran, And other countries were shaking in their boots when Mr. LaPierre made his speech...please.
    The proponents of the treaty have goals that are clearly at odds with the American Constitution. Their refusal to remove civilian arms from the treaty was one major issue that led to the breakdown in negotiations. The U.S. delegation made it clear that they could not move forward with the language as it had been drafted.
    First,the UN and other nations don't give a hoot about our 2A rights. Second, many other countries were out publicly earlier this month opposing any wording that would impact their own constitutions.......before Mr Lapieree spoke.

    Asfar as the Senators opposed to the treaty: All 51 of them were opposed to it prior to Mr LaPierre's letter a couple of weeks ago asking for more money.

    Don't get me worng. I do have an open mind and do recognize the NRA and GOA as organizations that do a lot to help 2A rights. But just a little bit of honesty from them and no more fear mongering would be nice. Stick to domestic 2A issues which is the impact they do have.
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  4. #273
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    i'm so grateful the so called "gun rights" organizations have saved us once again from the UN. We are saved from the FEMA camps-for now. The "gun rights" organizations will re-build their war chests for the next pseudo threat to our 2nd Amendment rights.

  5. #274
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by babarock View Post
    Does anyone have links to the full-text versions of the proposed treaty documents?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  6. #275
    Member Array bowserb's Avatar
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    I read the NRA-ILA email and article too. Yes the NRA claims victory, but in fact, no one has beat down the treaty--only postponed it. Does it occur to anyone that this is EXACTLY what Obama and Hillary want? This way, it is put off until well after the November election, and it is one less piece of controversy for Obama to deal with during the campaign. Of course, Romney is equally happy with this, as it is one less thing about which he has to be vague and not committing to a position.
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  7. #276
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Does anyone have links to the full-text versions of the proposed treaty documents?
    There was no proposed treaty. The discussion about a treaty never got out of draft versions. It was never approved by the UN committe, Never promulgated by the UN, never signed by any country, and never voted on by the US Senate.

    It was dead on arrival and could not be rescusitated. The US insisted that it be a consensus treaty and it was impossible to get everyone to agree = no consensus.

    the whole thing was pure "theater" from the get-go. It is hard to perceive that the NRA, as a US based NGO, had much to do with the failure of the UN countries to come to a consensus but maybe they have some world wide influence of which we are not aware. They are sure to be asking for donations...
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  8. #277
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    There was no proposed treaty. The discussion about a treaty never got out of draft versions.
    Those are the documents (the drafts, if that's the state of completion of the proposals) that I'm speaking of. In order to discuss them intelligently with other member state representatives, it has to be written down, translated, etc. Draft or not, I'm hopeful folks outside of the UN member states' representatives have seen it, perhaps have copies.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Does anyone have links to the full-text versions of the proposed treaty documents?
    There are previous posts that have links. It was available on the UN webpage that dealt with treaties.

  10. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    There was no proposed treaty. The discussion about a treaty never got out of draft versions. It was never approved by the UN committe, Never promulgated by the UN, never signed by any country, and never voted on by the US Senate.

    It was dead on arrival and could not be rescusitated. The US insisted that it be a consensus treaty and it was impossible to get everyone to agree = no consensus.

    the whole thing was pure "theater" from the get-go. It is hard to perceive that the NRA, as a US based NGO, had much to do with the failure of the UN countries to come to a consensus but maybe they have some world wide influence of which we are not aware. They are sure to be asking for donations...
    Who's to say that the NRA did not have some pull in making it "dead on arrival"? The pulled out all stops to stop this thing before it got too far. I am glad that they did. Hopefully it remains a no-go.

  11. #280
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    Who's to say that the NRA did not have some pull in making it "dead on arrival"? The pulled out all stops to stop this thing before it got too far. I am glad that they did. Hopefully it remains a no-go.
    OK. I totally disagree with you about your idea but let us assume you are correct. The NRA knew the whole time it was going to be DOA. Then why did they keep telling folks how dangerous this was, how it was going to affect US gunowners and our 2nd Amendment, and WHY On Earth if they knew it was DOA from the git go that the NRA and Mr. LaPierre kept asking for donations to prevent this from ever happening? They didn't need any money for advertising to influence senators......there were enough that announced a long time ago they would not ratify the treaty.

    And if you think the NRA has any influence over member nations of the UN .....

  12. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    OK. I totally disagree with you about your idea but let us assume you are correct. The NRA knew the whole time it was going to be DOA. Then why did they keep telling folks how dangerous this was, how it was going to affect US gunowners and our 2nd Amendment, and WHY On Earth if they knew it was DOA from the git go that the NRA and Mr. LaPierre kept asking for donations to prevent this from ever happening? They didn't need any money for advertising to influence senators......there were enough that announced a long time ago they would not ratify the treaty.

    And if you think the NRA has any influence over member nations of the UN .....
    You misunderstood my statement. The NRA did not know that it was dead on arrival. Their actions (in my opinion) helped make it that way. The fund raising was to replace the funds they used to put up the intial fight. I do not believe that I ever insinuated that the NRA has influence over UN members. The NRA does have influence on the US congress. Our UN delegation had a pretty clear indication where the line was drawn (thanks to the NRA). Any treaty that crossed that line would not pass the Senate.

  13. #282
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    You misunderstood my statement. The NRA did not know that it was dead on arrival. Their actions (in my opinion) helped make it that way. The fund raising was to replace the funds they used to put up the intial fight. I do not believe that I ever insinuated that the NRA has influence over UN members. The NRA does have influence on the US congress. Our UN delegation had a pretty clear indication where the line was drawn (thanks to the NRA). Any treaty that crossed that line would not pass the Senate.
    The fund raising that they were doing a week prior to 27 July said it was to advertisements to fight against the treaty. Where did it say to rebuild thier funds? If that is the case then they need to state that. You don't ask for money for one thing and use it for another.......And I still think the NRA had squat to do with the treaty. Senators had lined up over a month ago and said there was no way it would get ratified.

    This is a quote from the NRA-ILA:
    This is a big victory for American gun owners, and the NRA is being widely credited for killing the U.N. ATT.
    Who besides the folks like you that are just guessing at how effective the NRA was actually is crediting the NRA? I mean it says they are being widely credited.....by whom?

  14. #283
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    Hey guys, let's not argue about who accomplished what. I believe the real story is that Obama's people said to the correct Euro-trash and Asia-trash UN reps to just let it go for now. Obama doesn't want that before the election. I'm sure is minions made it clear--as when he whispered into Putin's ear about flexibility after the election--that Obama would be in their camp, but only if he were re-elected. The Eurasia trash, being no strangers to lying to the peons, went along with him.

    Watch and see, if that socialist is re-elected, the treaty will be drafted, and it will happen--just like the rest of his muslim-socialist agenda. Boys, buy your farmland now and start studying farming, because you'll need those 5-10 acres to just live. And hold onto that AR15 plus all the ammo you can stash away.
    Bill
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  15. #284
    Senior Member Array DoctorBob's Avatar
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    Let's also keep in mind that the two biggest nations in the arms trade did NOT want this treaty to succeed. The US (number 1) required that it be approved by consensus - so any one country could deep six it. The number two arms trade country - Russia - was also not interested in it. There is WAY too much profit in selling arms and ammunition to allow this sort of treaty to survive.
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  16. #285
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Dick Morris video explaining the treaty and suspected strategy for passing. I heard an interview with him and felt it added to my understanding of the issue so I added this link for the community to watch or ignore as they see fit. Headline: We won the battle but not the war.

    UN Shelves Gun Treaty…For Now – Dick Morris TV: Lunch Alert! at DickMorris.com

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