UN Arms Treaty (MERGED)

This is a discussion on UN Arms Treaty (MERGED) within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Yes, but that is the exact opposite of what it says in our constitution. Its worded that way so treaties made before the US Constitution ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    Yes, but that is the exact opposite of what it says in our constitution.
    Its worded that way so treaties made before the US Constitution will stay in effect. One of those treaties ended the Revolutionary war.

    SCOTUS From Reid vs Covert:

    Reid v. Covert


    Article VI, the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution, declares:

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof, and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; . . .

    There is nothing in this language which intimates that treaties and laws enacted pursuant to them do not have to comply with the provisions of the Constitution. Nor is there anything in the debates which accompanied the drafting and ratification of the Constitution which even suggests such a result. These debates, as well as the history that surrounds the adoption of the treaty provision in Article VI, make it clear that the reason treaties were not limited to those made in "pursuance" of the Constitution was so that agreements made by the United States under the Articles of Confederation, including the important peace treaties which concluded the Revolutionary [p17] War, would remain in effect. [n31] It would be manifestly contrary to the objectives of those who created the Constitution, as well as those who were responsible for the Bill of Rights -- let alone alien to our entire constitutional history and tradition -- to construe Article VI as permitting the United States to exercise power under an international agreement without observing constitutional prohibitions. [n32] In effect, such construction would permit amendment of that document in a manner not sanctioned by Article V. The prohibitions of the Constitution were designed to apply to all branches of the National Government, and they cannot be nullified by the Executive or by the Executive and the Senate combined.

    There is nothing new or unique about what we say here. This Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty. [n33] For example, in Geofroy v. Riggs, 133 U.S. 258, 267, it declared:

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  3. #17
    Ex Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
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    Constitution,,,, you mean the document ,,,,, the SCOTUS no longer supports,,,,, it
    is NOT GOING TO STOP anyone ANYMORE,,,,,,
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  4. #18
    Ex Member Array PIMking's Avatar
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    If it happens the Free American States will become a new Country in north America.

  5. #19
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    US Will Sign Gun Control Treaty on July 27!


    I just stumbled on this clip. This UN business has been bandied about since the Clinton years. Anyone know of anything new going down.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIMking View Post
    If it happens the Free American States will become a new Country in north America.
    Please enlighten me... which states are those going to be?
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  7. #21
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  8. #22
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    The dirty word...REGISTRATION.

    There is only one reason for registration...and that is CONFISCATION.

    Only the law abiding will register guns. Only the law abiding will get them taken away at some point in time.

    Its not about crime,safety of our children or any other buzzword that unsuspecting souls and fools beleive.

    Its about Dictators and Tyrants being able to sleep at night. That is all its about, and that is all it's ever been about.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  9. #23
    Member Array TailRunner's Avatar
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    Gun sales and Concealed Weapon License continue to soar at a record pace in Oklahoma, the OSBI and Sheriff's office can't process them fast enough.

  10. #24
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    Congressmen Urge The UN To Trample The US Constitution - a call to action

    Congressmen Urge The UN To Trample The US Constitution
    Posted on July 6, 2012 by Ammoland
    Tags:Arms Trade Treaty|ATT|Chris Cox|Gun Control|Obama Hates Guns|United Nations

    You might consider calling your Congress Critters and sending FAXes to the home district offices!

    That’s because today, representatives from many of the world’s socialist, tyrannical and dictatorial regimes will gather at United Nations headquarters in New York for a month-long meeting, in which they’ll put the finishing touches on an international Arms Trade Treaty that could seriously restrict your freedom to own, purchase and carry a firearm.

    Specifically, the U.N. wants to implement international gun registration requirements, bans on commonly owned firearms, tracking and registration of ammunition purchases, and create a new U.N. gun control bureaucracy.

    You might think that something so obviously menacing to one of our enumerated fundamental rights would receive a strong rebuke from our top government leaders.

    But you’d be wrong. This is President Barack Obama’s vision for America, and we’re expected to just go along with it.


    In fact, a group of anti-gun members of the U.S. House of Representatives, led by U.S. Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.), went so far as to circulate a letter last week to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice, in which they “strongly urge the United States to take a leadership role in pushing for a strong, verifiable Arms Trade Treaty.”


    These House members insist that the treaty include “controls on a comprehensive list of weaponry, including small arms and light weapons,” as well as controls on ammunition. For good measure, they wrap their unconstitutional demands in the mantle of advancing “human rights” and preventing international violence.

    They do mean In the United States people.

    Read more at Ammoland.com: Congressmen Urge The UN To Trample The US Constitution
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  11. #25
    Member Array Bhamrichard's Avatar
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    As has been pointed out before, the HOUSE has NOTHING to do with treaties. The U.S. Senate must approve all international treaties, and this is one that will never see the light of day in the senate.

    But beyond that, the U.S. Constitution is supreme in this land, it plays second fiddle to nothing, meaning treaties cannot alter the Second Amendment.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...

    Alabama Constitution of 1901 - That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhamrichard View Post
    the U.S. Constitution is supreme in this land, it plays second fiddle to nothing, meaning treaties cannot alter the Second Amendment.
    Not to be argumentative but I fail to see how you can still hold this opinion given recent developments. I guess I have a very different take on things as I watch current events unfold. I think this regime has proven time and time again that it can get away with whatever it chooses with no repercussions. The only hope we have is to instill a smidgeon of doubt in the hearts of our elected officials by letting them know not only are we are watching, but that we understand the boundaries of their power. Anything less and you have already let the BG get too close and breech your best defense.

    I for one appreciate "heads up".
    Last edited by Caertaker; July 7th, 2012 at 06:23 PM. Reason: spelling
    Spirit51, rdpG19, oneshot and 2 others like this.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caertaker View Post
    Not to be argumentative but I fail to see how you can still hold this opinion given recent developments. I guess I have a very different take on things as I watch current events unfold. I think this regime has proven time and time again that it can get away with whatever it chooses with no repercussions. The only hope we have is to instill a smidgeon of doubt in the hearts of our elected officials by letting them know not only are we are watching, but that we understand the boundaries of their power. Anything less and you have already let the BG get too close and breech your best defense.

    I for one appreciate "heads up".
    Me too. Doesn't hurt to tell all your politicians what you think of this. Even if they can't vote on it...let your feelings be known. Emails are easy. Here is the problem with apathy in this country....non involvement and ignoring some actions.

    I don't put anything past them. No matter which party is in control....we need to keep a sharp eye (and at times a sharp tongue) on all of the "ideas" out there, so nothing is snuck past us again.

    I thank the OP for this heads up.
    W9HDG, catt101 and miller_man like this.
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Don't forget....with all the Lawyers in DC (Party of Lawyers) (PM me if you want to know what Party of Lawyers is) they can always find loopholes in many, MANY, things we didn't think they could.
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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  15. #29
    P95
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    Don't think it will affect us here in the U.S....but you never know.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Not again!! Unless something happened the last week I have been on vacation there is not final treaty written yet. Just drafts. Second, the NRA and GOA have been fear mongering again without any substantial information it will impact gun owners in the US. (of course if other countries sign it and do not export to the US it will affect us but that has nothing to do with the US signing it...individual countries can do what they want). It will never pass the Senate and if it does it has been settled by SCOTUS that nothing trumps the Constitution.
    Stop blaming Obama for everything. We can thank the NRA and GOA for the rising price in ammo....they are spreading the fear.
    Stop blaming Obama....he can sign the treaty but it is the Senators that need to ratify it.

    And a favorite game of the NRA and the GOA is to build up fear and then throw their capes on when legislation gets defeated claiming if it were not for them we would have been doomed...even though many times legislation was going to die on its own anyway without their involvement.
    Hopyard, ericb327 and pk1978 like this.

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