BATF Acting Director threatens whistle Blowers

BATF Acting Director threatens whistle Blowers

This is a discussion on BATF Acting Director threatens whistle Blowers within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Seem the acting director doesn't like the fact that BATF agents talked about the ILLEGAL gun running by the BATF! Watch his message to the ...

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Thread: BATF Acting Director threatens whistle Blowers

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    BATF Acting Director threatens whistle Blowers

    Seem the acting director doesn't like the fact that BATF agents talked about the ILLEGAL gun running by the BATF! Watch his message to the BATF agents: Worrisome Message from Acting ATF Director - YouTube

    And we wonder why these people are elected and appointed!


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    Distinguished Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    I can't wait until the F&F stuff gets exposed. Talk about corruption at the highest levels...

    Issa is demanding this message be "clarified", because it looks like a blatant threat as it currently stands.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Corporate policy. Is your workplace stressful? You may be entitled to compensation...................................... ....................

    And we wonder why these people are elected and appointed!
    Elected and appointed by those people we wonder why ever got elected and put in the position of electing the appointed. We the people.

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    They've been putting out lots of info on it.
    I dont see where that makes then hyprocrites and they'be been at odds with the ATF for years.
    Are you sure you know what you are talking about?
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    Please DO listen to the video. There is absolutely no threat to Whistleblowers or anyone else who plays by the rules.

    The word whitleblower is not mentioned or implied in the video. He does speak about solving problems through the normal
    chain of command, and says not one word suggesting that folks should not go to either the Agency Inspector General or the Office of Special Counsel.

    For those of you who work for any Agency, the telephone numbers for both should be prominently displayed where you work.
    If for any reason you can't get a problem resolved with your supervisor, and there is wrong doing involved--not just the imaginings of wrongdoing, hurt feelings, and ordinary workplace gripes, phone the IG and or OSC.

    Again, everyone reading this thread who has never been in the system, the man offered no threat of retaliation to
    Whistleblowers. Whoever the OP is that posted that is putting words in the man's mouth.

    I saw nothing inappropriate whatsoever in what he said. There is a right way to resolve complaints and a wrong way; and he was merely warning that if you take the wrong way you will face discipline. That is as it should be.

    These matters also are well established in law and practice, and have nothing at all to do with politics.

    In fairness the thread title should be changed because it implies something that is not
    at all present in the video and is a form of slander to the Agency Head.
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    Distinguished Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Please DO listen to the video. There is absolutely no threat to Whistleblowers or anyone else who plays by the rules.

    The word whitleblower is not mentioned or implied in the video. He does speak about solving problems through the normal
    chain of command, and says not one word suggesting that folks should not go to either the Agency Inspector General or the Office of Special Counsel.

    For those of you who work for any Agency, the telephone numbers for both should be prominently displayed where you work.
    If for any reason you can't get a problem resolved with your supervisor, and there is wrong doing involved--not just the imaginings of wrongdoing, hurt feelings, and ordinary workplace gripes, phone the IG and or OSC.

    Again, everyone reading this thread who has never been in the system, the man offered no threat of retaliation to
    Whistleblowers. Whoever the OP is that posted that is putting words in the man's mouth.

    I saw nothing inappropriate whatsoever in what he said. There is a right way to resolve complaints and a wrong way; and he was merely warning that if you take the wrong way you will face discipline. That is as it should be.

    These matters also are well established in law and practice, and have nothing at all to do with politics.

    In fairness the thread title should be changed because it implies something that is not
    at all present in the video and is a form of slander to the Agency Head.
    I couldn't disagree more. I don't think there is anything wrong with the title of this thread, either. Going over a supervisors head to file a complaint is one thing. Going over your supervisors head to call them out on illegal activity is something else, entirely. With the recent events that have unfolded, it is unknown how much illegal activity has been performed by the ATF in regards to the F&F case. We only know that it has happened. Since the ATF is refusing to cooperate with certain government entities, it can also be assumed that there is the possibility a cover-up happening. And the comment about slander to the agency head? Give me a break. The head of the DOJ is currently being held in contempt of congress over these issues.

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    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    i agree with Hopyard. Don't see anything in the guys talk that threatens whistleblowers.

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    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    If you don't see open your eyes the message is clear.
    This is our justice system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotus222 View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. I don't think there is anything wrong with the title of this thread, either. Going over a supervisors head to file a complaint is one thing. Going over your supervisors head to call them out on illegal activity is something else, entirely. With the recent events that have unfolded, it is unknown how much illegal activity has been performed by the ATF in regards to the F&F case. We only know that it has happened. Since the ATF is refusing to cooperate with certain government entities, it can also be assumed that there is the possibility a cover-up happening. And the comment about slander to the agency head? Give me a break. The head of the DOJ is currently being held in contempt of congress over these issues.



    ^^^^^^^^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    Hopyard, some of us were born at night, but it wasn't LAST NIGHT.

    This "acting director" is letting ATF people know, that should they have a problem with something, they need to go to their supervisors, and leave it (the matter of concern) in their hands, to be swept under the rug at a later date, presumably AFTER the whistleblowers untimely demise.







    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    i agree with Hopyard. Don't see anything in the guys talk that threatens whistleblowers.


    Gullible.
    Look it up.
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    I too agree that the YouTube video is not particularly threatening. He just want them to understand that they need to go through the proper procedures if they have an issue.

    I've heard basically the same speech where I work. As an incoming Director, he wants everone to know where he stands on the issue. That's no different than working at any large corporation in America.

    Let me tell ya'll a story that happened at local nuclear plant. Someone made a complaint to the NRC about an issue with Security Procedures at the Plant. The NRC has an open door policy and they openly state to take care of it through normal channels in the chain of command.
    Apparently a couple of employees tried that and were not sastified with the results, so they voiced their complaints to the NRC which will investigate.

    The Security Manager got ticked off when he found out and he callled them all together and threatened disiplinary action to whoever went to the NRC. He also publicy asked for the names of the "offenders" and said that they would be fired when he found out who they were. He being a retired Master Seargent in the Air Force would occasionaly forget that he was a civilian and the rules were different.

    Within a few hours of that speech, he his badge was pulled and he was escorted out of the Protected area by an NRC Inspector and two Security Guards. We havent seen him since, and he is being in Federal Charges of violating the WhistelBlower Act, because he threatend punitive actions in direct conflict with the provisions of the act. His career in Nuclear is over and I wouldnt be suprised if he does time at a Federal Pokey somewhere.

    As for the acting ATF Director, I see no threats in his speech at all, in fact it is worded very carefully. I personally am not fond of the ATF, but there is nothing to see here.
    Rock and Glock and Hopyard like this.
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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Context is a wonderful thing. When your supervisors are engaging in illegal activity and/or instructing you to and, with something like F&F, where you know their supervisors are aware of what's going on, following the chain of command is useless. ATF has a history of secrecy, contradictory rulings, harassment of citizens, rulings that fly in the face of common sense, etc - this establishes a "tone at the top"; or a "nature" of how business is handled at the agency. There is no reason to trust that honoring the ATF chain of command will accomplish anything other than getting oneself overtly fired or phased out. Given the current state of the legal trouble the ATF is in b/c of decisions at the top, and looking at this F&F timeline (especially 3/12/10 - 1/31/11) and the included emails from the top, I think it is very inappropriate for the director of the ATF to be addressing how complaints of illegal/questionable activity are reported. There was clear concern from the agents on the ground of what was transpiring. If there were a trustworthy pathway to report those activities, it probably would have been taken.

    A general "choices and consequences" speech could have been looked at as denouncing activities like F&F (and IMHO, should have been), but instead it was directed toward "raising concerns to supervisors". The very fact that in the middle of all that is taking place, the director wants to address "complaint logging" says volumes about the attitude and priorities of the director. Instead he should be doing a lot more to find out why agents felt the need to go public with concerns instead of using their chain of command - that is the underlying problem. It is up to him to first change the environment and allow time for trust btwn agents and supervisors to be built, not to immediately threaten disciplinary actions for not trusting a currently corrupt environment. Taking all this into account, I think the title is appropriate and the director of the ATF should be relieved.
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    One other thing, if you notice his comment @apprx. 3:00 he mentions "accelerated change" that we've been implementing over the last 9 months.

    Yeah, right, they just now all of a sudden have an accelerated change that they have been trying to implement for the last 9 months, or you could say since the country has been holding their feet to the fire and they are running out of options,,,,

    Find a tall tree and as short peice of rope for all these bums.
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    Remember that we are only seeing a small segment of his speech here. He is adressing everyone in the ATF to make sure that they know where he stands.

    Nothing wrong with that.

    One thing I know for a fact. I deal with the ATF quite a bit, both their Regulatory Divison( the paper pushers) and a couple of their Field Division Officers, (the ones that stomp cats,shoot dogs and wear jackboots).

    They all hate what is going on in the agency. Most of them cant stand the President or the administration because they feel like he is taking advantage of them and they are getting tired of having to "stick up" for their jobs everyday. Most of them are just normal people trying to do a job, amist increases in paper work, with hiring freezes, with people retiring or just up and quitting and not getting replaced. They hate what is happening more than anyone.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    ^^^^^very true. Most are the type of guys you would enjoy hanging out with
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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    I saw nothing wrong in the vid. Honestly, I was much more of a tyrant back when I was in executive management.

    It's tough making the transition from military chain-of-command style communications to the touchy-feely world of civilian communications where everybody's feelings must be taken into consideration. Actually, I thought the military was going soft back in the mid-80's with their political-correctness, so I went into the private sector. I worked in an 'employment at will' state, and swung that sword both ways.
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