Current concerns to our 2A, and what can we do right now?

This is a discussion on Current concerns to our 2A, and what can we do right now? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Several years ago, I spent a great deal of time working with politicians to improve on some industry-related legislation. It was not gun-related but very ...

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Thread: Current concerns to our 2A, and what can we do right now?

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    Current concerns to our 2A, and what can we do right now?

    Several years ago, I spent a great deal of time working with politicians to improve on some industry-related legislation. It was not gun-related but very emotional nonetheless. I learned a lot, and from that experience I am a strong advocate for emailing or phoning your legislator and let them know how you feel about a certain issue.

    I saw legislators change their postion based on the number of phone calls that came into their office, their change favored the response of the calls. I heard from them, "My phone has been ringing off the wall"!!!!! IT DOES MAKE A STRONG IMPRESSION ON THEM.

    It's easy to get their office phone number and/or email address. Call their office and tell them what you think about regarding some current issue or bill (very helpful to cite the bill, i.e. SB303). Be respectful and to the point, remind them that you are a registered voter in their district (at least I hope you are).

    Granted, we all know the stories about them speaking out of both sides of their mouths, and some of them will never budge from some issue you don't like. Those are not good enough reasons not to call, the politicians do pay close attention to calls and emails, it's sort of like an incoming poll to them.

    If you feel your legislator is hopeless and on opposite ends of the pole from you, that is even more reason why you need to call them. A squeaky wheel gets the grease.

    Calling or emailing them is essentially free and very very effective. Encourage your friends, relatives and co-worker to do the same. I've seen it at work !

    Monday I'll be calling both of my rep and senators and my message will be short and sweet. I will let them know my concerns and suspicions of this UN treaty and how I don't expect it to interfere with my 2A rights whatsoever. Secondly, I will be solidly against any useless gun laws that might come out of this latest shooting in Colorado.


    Here are some tips on contacting your legislators.
    NRA-ILA | Write Your Reps

    Also, if you haven't already, join some pro-gun group. There is strength in numbers.

    Long ago, when I was a kid, I saw an editorial cartoon and a angry/weary-looking American Revolutionary soldier (with musket in hand) was looking at me and said, "You didn't vote? What if I hadn't fought? ". It made an impression on me that remains today.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    There will no doubt be lots of pressure for additional gun control, and none of it will be good or reasonable.
    But, there is one thing that I personally do think needs control. Magazine capacity. If it is true that he went
    in there with a 100 round drum, that is concerning. I see no civilian purpose for such. Oh, I'm sure if
    you had an FA with 100 round drum it would be a fun thing to throw money away with, but I'm not happy
    with the ready availability of ultra high capacity magazines ---and think they should be regulated about the way
    silencers, FA, and short barrel shotties are.

    I refer one and all to the other thread about "is 5 enough." I think a 15 rnd limited is plenty
    for ordinary civilian purposes and would regulate ultra high cap.

    I don't consider magazine capacity regulations 'gun control.' It is related but not the same thing.

    When I listened to the Police Chief of Aurora last night he was uncertain if the AR was fired as a semi-auto
    or if it was fired FA/bursts. He just didn't have the info. That creep who shot everyone was smart enough
    to have converted his AR, but doing so would have been near worthless if his magazine capacity were limited.

    I don't feel super strongly about the capacity issue either way, but if it turns out that he was enabled to do
    the massacre because he could readily buy a 100 round drum; I'd cut those from legal sale except with
    special procedures as are in place with cans. That won't stop everyone, but it will slow many down and stop many.

    I know I'll get flamed and cussed. Someone will use the tired argument that the fault lies with the
    shooter not the magazine. True enough, but we don't have to make life easy for the truly crazy.
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    There will be a lot of bluster about enacting new gun control laws but nothing will come of it.

    Nothing meaningful changed after the Giffords shooting and that was perpetrated against one of their own fellow members of congress.

    This may sound callous but legislators don't see the incentive of enacting new gun control laws because I think they know that losing a hanful of lives a few times a year is better for them than losing millions of votes. It is a cold calculation but the incentive is not there in our political system to enact new gun control laws.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There will no doubt be lots of pressure for additional gun control, and none of it will be good or reasonable.
    But, there is one thing that I personally do think needs control. Magazine capacity. If it is true that he went
    in there with a 100 round drum, that is concerning. I see no civilian purpose for such. Oh, I'm sure if
    you had an FA with 100 round drum it would be a fun thing to throw money away with, but I'm not happy
    with the ready availability of ultra high capacity magazines ---and think they should be regulated about the way
    silencers, FA, and short barrel shotties are.

    I refer one and all to the other thread about "is 5 enough." I think a 15 rnd limited is plenty
    for ordinary civilian purposes and would regulate ultra high cap.

    I don't consider magazine capacity regulations 'gun control.' It is related but not the same thing.

    When I listened to the Police Chief of Aurora last night he was uncertain if the AR was fired as a semi-auto
    or if it was fired FA/bursts. He just didn't have the info. That creep who shot everyone was smart enough
    to have converted his AR, but doing so would have been near worthless if his magazine capacity were limited.

    I don't feel super strongly about the capacity issue either way, but if it turns out that he was enabled to do
    the massacre because he could readily buy a 100 round drum; I'd cut those from legal sale except with
    special procedures as are in place with cans. That won't stop everyone, but it will slow many down and stop many.

    I know I'll get flamed and cussed. Someone will use the tired argument that the fault lies with the
    shooter not the magazine. True enough, but we don't have to make life easy for the truly crazy.
    I must totally disagree with you. If I want to have fun and blow away a bunch of ammo that is my right. As far as your rationale that you think there is no civilian purpose for it that is right out of the anti playbook when they say that AR's should be banned and semi auto rilfes because they are not needed for hunting. As far as silencers (suppressors)they have great benefits. They can make a rifle more accurate. They are quiet. They definitly have a civilian purpose and one should not have to go through hoops to pay a great amount of money to get one.

    In Bold::No offense Hop but are you writing for the Brady Bunch now...that is what they say about gun in general......
    HotGuns, ppkheat and DPro.40 like this.

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    I refer one and all to the other thread about "is 5 enough." I think a 15 rnd limited is plenty
    for ordinary civilian purposes and would regulate ultra high cap.
    Huge difference between citizens discussing what they personally consider is proper or good enough and the Government mandating it. The first is freedom the second is freedom being taken away.
    I don't consider magazine capacity regulations 'gun control.' It is related but not the same thing.
    It would be the same as requiring all firearms be single shots. No difference at all except maybe with the number the Government arbitrarily decides is 'needed'.

    Michael

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    I wonder if the survivors of this horrible event will be preaching gun control? I'd be willing to bet more people will buy guns as a result of this tragedy.

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BubbaDX View Post
    I wonder if the survivors of this horrible event will be preaching gun control? I'd be willing to bet more people will buy guns as a result of this tragedy.
    That would be a logical first reaction. Its a normal emotional reaction to being hurt. Whatever hurt you must be bad. Thats why snap judgments are often wrong.

    Michael

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    Hop...
    Magazine size limits are only the 'camel's nose under the tent'...nothing more, nothing less.
    Obviously, OMO!
    zacii, DPro.40 and Spirit51 like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I must totally disagree with you. If I want to have fun and blow away a bunch of ammo that is my right. As far as your rationale that you think there is no civilian purpose for it that is right out of the anti playbook when they say that AR's should be banned and semi auto rilfes because they are not needed for hunting. As far as silencers (suppressors)they have great benefits. They can make a rifle more accurate. They are quiet. They definitly have a civilian purpose and one should not have to go through hoops to pay a great amount of money to get one.

    In Bold::No offense Hop but are you writing for the Brady Bunch now...that is what they say about gun in general......
    I dunno about the statement, "that is my right." Somewhere along the way there is a public safety v freedom
    cost benefit analysis that has to be made. There is nothing unusual about that. And the Supremes have
    blessed that too.

    Also, if you read carefully and thoughtfully what I wrote, I didn't say you shouldn't be able to get them.
    HG has posted here about getting cans; and regs for obtaining FA. It isn't impossible to lawfully get these things.

    I'm not saying to make it illegal to have high capacity magazines, I'm suggesting that putting a few
    extra hurdles in the way may dissuade the lunatics. Perhaps the sale of ultra high cap magazines should
    be reported to local authorities similarly to the way purchase of controlled prescription meds are (in some states)
    reported.

    Whether anything could have dissuaded this Holmes fellow is however problematic, as he clearly had patience,
    a clean record, and would have been able to do anything lawful; he could have purchased a FA with his clean
    record.

    But, he is unusual. There are many more folks around like Lochner who are too disorganized to jump through
    some hoops. Those folks can be deterred.

    I sure wouldn't want to be a defender, perhaps a cop, having to go against someone with an AR and a 100
    rnd magazine; especially if the AR were illegally modified. Let's have a little mercy on ourselves and
    not stack the deck in favor of the screwballs.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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    Magazine limits do nothing, they are irrevalent and they serve only as a touch feely thing to make timid people feel better.

    The shooter had a drum magazine.It had at least 60 rounds in. For the magazine limit to even be a factor, he would have had to kill 60 people. He did not.
    Witness say that he changed magazines several times. Whether they weer 5 rounders, 10 rounders or 100 round belt fed machine gun, it would'nt have made any difference.

    What I do not take lightly is someone else deciding what I can or can not legally own. That has always hacked me off and it always will.

    We had magazine limits once before and they did nothing. Fortunatlely it was evaluated and repealed.

    Any now some people are calling for magazine limits again? You've got to be kidding me.

    As for the "cop" being outgunned,it aint like it used to be. If I encounter some whacko with a large magazine spraying the place down, I'll be watching him through a scoped .308...but not for long.
    zacii, suntzu, BurgerBoy and 5 others like this.
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    @Hop..I have read your post carefully and I did address why I disagree with you. I know you did not say nobody should get them but then why go through extra hoops and give the gvt an extra 200 dollars? Bull. OK, for a right some folks already have to spend money for classes (which they have to pass! try that with voting rights!), pay to get a liscense to exercise that right, and have to wait up to several months before they get permission to exercise that right.
    Now, a pro A guy is advocating to add more money the government gets from me to exercise a right with options...No thank you.

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    One thing I that I have heard being mentioned over and over on the news is the fact that someone can order ammunition over the Internet. Then have it delivered to their home. It was only a couple of years ago that OSHA tried to implement rules that would have stopped all shipments of black powder calling it a safety regulation. Had it gone into effect it would have killed the black powder sport. This time the media is mentioning the sales and shipments of both black powder and smokeless ammo for possible restrictions.

    Michael

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    What can we do?

    Buy all the "large capacity ammo feeding magazines" that you can, right now.

    I spent some time at the gunshop this morning. With all this anti-talk they are flying off the shelves already and it will only get worse.

    Dont slam me for saying it. Its just the way it is.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Magazine limits do nothing, they are irrevalent and they serve only as a touch feely thing to make timid people feel better.

    The shooter had a drum magazine.It had at least 60 rounds in. For the magazine limit to even be a factor, he would have had to kill 60 people. He did not.
    Witness say that he changed magazines several times. Whether they weer 5 rounders, 10 rounders or 100 round belt fed machine gun, it would'nt have made any difference.

    What I do not take lightly is someone else deciding what I can or can not legally own. That has always hacked me off and it always will.

    We had magazine limits once before and they did nothing. Fortunatlely it was evaluated and repealed.

    Any now some people are calling for magazine limits again? You've got to be kidding me.

    As for the "cop" being outgunned,it aint like it used to be. If I encounter some whacko with a large magazine spraying the place down, I'll be watching him through a scoped .308...but not for long.

    First part in bold: HG, I don't follow your point. Why would he have had to kill 60 people?
    A very high cap magazine gave him an ability to throw a lot of lead out without giving anyone an opportunity
    to rush him.

    Second part in bold: I understand, but we live with all sorts of these restrictions, and as you have pointed
    out many of them aren't really a big deal to get through the hoops-- e.g., the cans thing. Our prior conversation
    about that opened my eyes a bit to the fact that yes we can have our toys and also have a modicum of
    control on them. What was it you said it cost to apply to get a can? Ten bucks a can? The cost is hardly a
    deterrent; but the mentally disorganized won't usually be together enough jump that hoop.

    We have had at least three mass shooting in recent years--- The Crazy military shrink; crazy Lochner;
    and this guy. There have been other incidents. Sunzu worries about not being able to have fun; but that
    concern really falls short when compared to being dead.

    This sort of reminds me of a conversation I had with a building inspector when I wanted to install a
    ventless furnace; something that would have met my needs but which was prohibited by code. "I don't want you to
    wake up dead" he said. Well, I can jump and scream about not being able to do what I want with my own house,
    but the guy is right--- its better to wake up than to wake up dead.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    I have already written my state rep and two US senators from my state and district. Explained my concerns about the UN Arms Trade Treaty and how I felt it's an impingement upon our 2nd Amendment rights.

    All three responded, saying their offices are also concerned about it. Pretty good, I think.
    ppkheat, DPro.40 and Spirit51 like this.

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