Naturally, they demonize gun in NY shooting

This is a discussion on Naturally, they demonize gun in NY shooting within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Didn't take 'em long... Gunman used a nasty old .45...a big, powerful handgun... (but all the bystanders were hit by police rounds...) In NY shooting ...

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Thread: Naturally, they demonize gun in NY shooting

  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Naturally, they demonize gun in NY shooting

    Didn't take 'em long...
    Gunman used a nasty old .45...a big, powerful handgun... (but all the bystanders were hit by police rounds...)


    In NY shooting aftermath, playbook journalism kicks in

    One thing about anti-gun journalism is that it is as predictable as rain in Seattle, and such is the case with reportage following Friday’s shooting of a gunman near New York’s Empire State Building.

    In NY shooting aftermath, playbook journalism kicks in - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com

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    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    Wow, what happened to the rules of gunfighting? fire twice, adjust your aim, fire twice....it gives you time to pause and assess. I think 2 shots from each would have done the trick. That's what happens when you try and empty your magazine in a crowded place. Those cops should be fired and tried for the shootings of those other 8 people.

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    Senior Member Array sensei2's Avatar
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    hi dave: i just finished reading, "Shooting Blanks" on Monday. (had already read your "America Fights Back").

    OF COURSE the gun-banners demonized both gun and caliber - ANYTHING to try and convince the undecided public that more "sensible" gun laws are needed.

    however, it does seem that the majority of people in this country are no longer buying what they're trying to sell. despite the many very publicized shootings that have occurred in the recent past, there has been no real attempt by more than the usual gun-banning politicians to enact more anti-gun legislation.*

    i hope and believe that most people see these shootings as unpreventable aberrations, and that more of us are deciding to go legally armed ourselves, in order to be able to protect ourselves from these killers.

    i believe that the enactment of "shall issue" legislation in so many States, and the absence of any of the catastrophic consequences predicted by the antis every time such legislation is proposed, has made more ordinary people aware of the advantages of being armed. as more and more ordinary folks decide to take more responsibility for their personal safety, America becomes more like Robert A. Heinlein's 'Polite Society'.

    the demand for smaller, more easily concealed firearms has prompted manufacturers to develop many new models. and this demand extends to the makers of holsters and personal defense ammunition as well. this is good news for those of us who believe in the Second Amendment




    *we certainly need to be ready to fight such proposals as they come up.
    Last edited by sensei2; August 25th, 2012 at 05:51 PM.
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  5. #4
    Senior Member Array sensei2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    Wow, what happened to the rules of gunfighting? fire twice, adjust your aim, fire twice....it gives you time to pause and assess. I think 2 shots from each would have done the trick. That's what happens when you try and empty your magazine in a crowded place. Those cops should be fired and tried for the shootings of those other 8 people.

    police officers can more afford to 'spray and pray' because their departments stand behind them. a private citizen who fires in self-defense is, or should be, responsible for every round that leaves his or her weapon, so we must exercise more care. personally, i suspect that most members of this forum are better shots than the majority of sworn officers.

    that said, it's very easy to lose fire discipline when bullets are flying, and many shots can be fired very quickly. yet it doesn't seem like the officers in this incident were personally under fire when they began shooting at the BG.

    i'm hoping that something like the "Good Samaritan" laws will eventually be used to defend private citizens who intervene in public shootings. situations like this one, or the Aurora theater shooting could be hard to resolve without the possibility of collateral damage. (which is weasel wording for innocent people being shot by the good guys)

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    "Wow, what happened to the rules of gunfighting?"

    If I'm in a gunfight, I ain't playing by no rules. All bets are off.
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    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
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    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    No matter the reason why the 8 people where injured I kind of feel bad for the officers. I'm hoping this incident will show other officers / departments that they need to take fire arm practicing more seriously.

    As far as those that are saying the gun is the issue and that is why someone is dead. 99% chance the attacker could have killed his assailant using a knife or a baseball bat. Maybe this is cliche, but the gun didn't kill anyone, it was simply a tool.
    Glock Armorer

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    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    So let me get this straight. Guy with a problem walks out shoots a guy he has a problem with. LEOers are near by he wants to commit suicide by LEO.
    LEO open up and shoot 9 by standers. And some how this is the fault of the rest of us.
    Shooter may have purchased the weapon legally some time back, but he was in possession of it illegally in NY.
    Again how does this reflect on US?
    Crazy BG with problem hit his target and only his target......
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    Member Array Jdp751's Avatar
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    Too many shots were fired I think they said 16, at the distance they were shooting from, which looked like it was about 20 to 30 feet, that was unacceptable shooting even using a New York trigger in a glock, they increased the trigger pull quite a bit ,New York Police Department change their trigger pull I think about 10 years ago the reason why was because too many officers were shooting themselves in the leg and in the foot when they were holstering their weapon. Just sloppy and no discipline. so the easy fix was to change the trigger Paul instead of training the officers to keep their damn finger out of that trigger guard when they are holstering which would be more expensive. The poor people of New York are not allowed to carry any weapons for protection you can even get arrested carrying a pocket knife there if the clip is showing in your pocket, the only self defense you are allowed to have in New York City is duck and cover, in less your name is Michael Bloomberg then you have your own armed security police officers protecting you. Kind of like do as I say not as I do

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    Senior Member Array Bullet1234's Avatar
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    Michael ,,,, tell me this has NOT HAPPENED,,,,, shooting in NYC,,,, I THOUGHT IT WAS
    ILLEGAL TO HAVE HANDGUNS,,,,, seems like ONLY THE GOOD PEOPLE OBEY THE LAW.

    When will they ever learn,,,,, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER,,,, their stupid gun laws ,,,, keep ME
    OUT OF NYC,,,,, and I do love the city.
    “A few elitists shouldn't rule the many. ”
    Better to have a 380 in your pocket than a 45 at HOME.
    When seconds count, police are minutes away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    "Wow, what happened to the rules of gunfighting?"

    If I'm in a gunfight, I ain't playing by no rules. All bets are off.
    Yep, I agree. There is only 1 rule in s gun fight. WIN.
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    Member Array Lindy1933's Avatar
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    To us gun banning is ridiculous but to others their logic is: “had Johnson not had a gun then the cops would not have had to shoot him and in the chaos hit bystanders.”

    Johnson was a crazy and probably could have gotten a CCW in Nevada if his record was clean. There could be a “Suicide by LEO” part in all this too because had he just raised his hands, they probably would not have shot him.
    Retired AF pilot, Vietnam FAC 1967-68

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    They are demonizing you and me while we aren't looking as well. Law abiding citizens are on a black list just like evil weapons. You better believe it.

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    Too many shots were fired I think they said 16, at the distance they were shooting from, which looked like it was about 20 to 30 feet, that was unacceptable shooting even using a New York trigger in a glock, they increased the trigger pull quite a bit ,New York Police Department change their trigger pull I think about 10 years ago the reason why was because too many officers were shooting themselves in the leg and in the foot when they were holstering their weapon. Just sloppy and no discipline. so the easy fix was to change the trigger Paul instead of training the officers to keep their damn finger out of that trigger guard when they are holstering which would be more expensive. The poor people of New York are not allowed to carry any weapons for protection you can even get arrested carrying a pocket knife there if the clip is showing in your pocket, the only self defense you are allowed to have in New York City is duck and cover, in less your name is Michael Bloomberg then you have your own armed security police officers protecting you. Kind of like do as I say not as I do
    NY1 trigger does not increase pull enough to use for an excuse. I have been shooting with the NY1 springs for 15 years. If anything they improve the trigger pull and make it more consistent.

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    Senior Member Array sensei2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Yep, I agree. There is only 1 rule in s gun fight. WIN.

    indeed. but if you stop the BG, but hit a bystander, get sued and lose the suit, have you won?

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    Senior Member Array sensei2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azretired View Post
    NY1 trigger does not increase pull enough to use for an excuse. I have been shooting with the NY1 springs for 15 years. If anything they improve the trigger pull and make it more consistent.

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
    i believe the NY cops have a 12 pound trigger on their Glocks. this would mean either a NY-2 trigger, or a NY-1 with a heavier than standard weight connector.

    i also use the NY-1 unit, but i pair it with the 3.5 pound connector. i agree that the NY-1 gives, IMO, a nicer trigger action. instead of a bit of no resistance slack, then the 5-pound resistance, the NY-1 unit gives a more constant pressure through the entire trigger stroke. pairing the NY-1 with the standard 5-pound connector results in about an 8-pound total weight. substituting the factory 3.5-pound connector (with the NY-1) results in a 5-6 pound trigger.

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