running of serial number

[taseal]

here is the statute from FL, Our statutes doesn't say running the pistol through a stolen is OK'd, but it doesn't say it can't be run either. (and running a pistol through a database has nothing to do with the 4th ammendment, improper seizure would, and in this case, it isn't) weapons are a special case (unlike drugs) Check out Terry and Ohio case

901.151 Stop and Frisk Law

(5) Whenever any law enforcement officer authorized to detain temporarily any person under the provisions of subsection (2) has probable cause to believe that any person whom the officer has temporarily detained, or is about to detain temporarily, is armed with a dangerous weapon and therefore offers a threat to the safety of the officer or any other person, the officer may search such person so temporarily detained only to the extent necessary to disclose, and for the purpose of disclosing, the presence of such weapon. If such a search discloses such a weapon or any evidence of a criminal offense it may be seized.

also, FYI, a traffic stop is a temporary detain. most are infractions, but still a lawful detainment.

Hopefully this explains a little bit more.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[taseal]

Not entirely correct, the courts have ruled Officer must be fearful and taking possession is for Officer safety. A ruling often abused by LE to legitimize an otherwise unlawful violation of the 4th amendment.

if a citizen is armed and has been stopped for breaking the law (as little as speeding, but still breaking the law) and you are armed, I have enough fear to disarm you temporarily until the detainment is over.

[sgb]

if a citizen is armed and has been stopped for breaking the law (as little as speeding, but still breaking the law) and you are armed, I have enough fear to disarm you temporarily until the detainment is over.

There is no duty to inform in Florida. If you're that fearful of lawfully armed citizens then you need to find another line of work.

[taseal]

There is no duty to inform in Florida. If you're that fearful of lawfully armed citizens then you need to find another line of work.

So you will lie to the law enforcement officer during an investigation? and say you don't have one? that will land you in jail, and because you have a firearm, it has now become a felony.

How do I know you're not going to go crazy? You broke the law, and I caught you. now I'm talking to you and having an official police investigation, and you are armed... And saying that I need to find another line of work isn't going to work either. That's like me saying you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun because you are carrying a weapon and breaking the laws by speeding. (aka absolute non-sense).

I try not to argue with people about this stuff, so I will probably not respond after this. I only tried to help explaining the situation from a statute perspective. Please respect my explanation.

[sgb]

So you will lie to the law enforcement officer during an investigation? that will land you in jail, and because you have a firearm, it has now become a felony.

and saying that I need to find another line of work isn't going to work either. That's like me saying you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun because you are carrying a weapon and breaking the laws by speeding.

I try not to argue with people about this stuff, so I will probably not respond after this. I only tried to help explaining the situation from a statute perspective. Please respect my explanation.

You're obviously young and think you know the law better than you actually do. As a former LEO myself I'd strongly advise you seek advice from older more experienced supervisory staff before you end up costing your municipality a lot of money and yourself a career. This contempt of cop attitude is the downfall of many young LEO.

[taseal]

You're obviously young and think you know the law better than you actually do. As a former LEO myself I'd strongly advise you seek advice from older more experienced supervisory staff before you end up costing your municipality a lot of money and yourself a career.

Thank you for the advice. Not sure what else to say unless I get in an argument with you, which I don't do on public forums, if you'd like to take it to PMs, I will gladly debate it with you.

I'm a huge believer in 2nd ammendment and don't disarm people. I only gave the a point of view from an officer that would.

most officers will disarm here, and that's their call. perhaps you are former LEO for a reason, who knows.

[mlr1m]

What will the Officer do when they run the number and they do not find that the firearm was purchased by the person they took it from? Something I have often wondered about when this is discussed.

Michael

[sgb]

Thank you for the advice. Not sure what else to say unless I get in an argument with you, which I don't do on public forums, if you'd like to take it to PMs, I will gladly debate it with you.

I'm a huge believer in 2nd ammendment and don't disarm people. I only gave the a point of view from an officer that would.

most officers will disarm here, and that's their call. perhaps you are former LEO for a reason, who knows.

It's called retirement jr.

[taseal]

What will the Officer do when they run the number and they do not find that the firearm was purchased by the person they took it from? Something I have often wondered about when this is discussed.

Michael

it depends on the state. in FL, anyone can check to see if a weapon is stolen. here there are no names associated with the pistol, it's against our statutues so what you say couldn't happen.

790.335 - - 2012 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

[sgb]

What will the Officer do when they run the number and they do not find that the firearm was purchased by the person they took it from? Something I have often wondered about when this is discussed.

Michael

An Officer in a state without mandated firearms registration would not have access to such information.

[taseal]

It's called retirement jr.

Thank you for your service to our community sir.

[NotMallNinja]

If an officer stops me I would as a courtesy inform that I am carrying. However, absent a duty to inform and a reasonable basis to search during said traffic stop (detainment), an officer would be trampling over the Fourth Amendment and be subjecting himself and his department to a potential civil suit.

The case law is clear that you still need a basis for a personal safety search which at best includes the person but not possessions that might be concealing a weapon (vehicle, backpack, glove box, etc.). Add the fact that most traffic stops are for infractions in which a person stopped does not exit their vehicle and you again would be hard pressed to justify a search based on a phantom fear for your safety. In other words, I call hogwash and abuse of power.

Furthermore, to try and say a weapons charge (failure to do what... inform when not required) in a traffic infraction turns it into a felony demonstrates a severe lack of knowledge of the laws in most, if not all, states. Normally the otherwise lawful possession of a weapon during the commission of a crime must be specified by statute to be the basis to say turn a misdemeanor to a felony or to make a felony worse.

Some purported LEOs here do not seem to know what they are talking about. Most do and are courteous and respectful.

[F350]

Is Tenn a must notify State? Once an Officer has knowledge that you're armed the courts have ruled it's reasonable for an officer to take temporary possession of the firearm if they feel you're a threat to their safety. Once the firearm is in their possession the ser # is in plain view and they can run it. Some Officers routinely abuse the courts ruling under the premise that all armed citizens pose a threat just so they can run the firearms ser #.

That right there is EXACTLY why I keep a small piece of black electrical tape over the SN of any handgun I carry. SCOTUS has ruled even lifting a piece of stereo equipment that is in plain view to see the SN is a search and plain view does not cover it. In Colorado a (chicken shinola) can take possession of my firearm for his/her safety, but lifting that piece of tape will bring a shinola storm the likes of which they have never seen.

Arizona v. Hicks. In Hicks, police responded to a shooting where a man in a first floor apartment had been injured by a bullet fired through the floor of Hicks’ apartment above. The officers entered Hicks’ apartment based upon exigent circumstances and seized three guns and a ski mask. During the search, one of the officers noticed some expensive stereo equipment in this apartment. The officer moved the stereo equipment in order to obtain serial numbers. Upon running a check on the serial numbers the officer discovered that a turntable had been taken in a robbery. On appeal to the Supreme Court, the officer argued that the stolen turntable had been in plain view. The Court concluded that the officer did not have probable cause to believe that the turntable was evidence or contraband until he made a further intrusion by moving the items to obtain the numbers. The movement was a further search unrelated to the original exigent circumstance of looking for guns and evidence of the shooting.

[F350]

I would file a complaints against the unprofessionalism of these officers and note all wordings they use. Here are some links which may be helpful.

How to File an Effective Complaint Against a Police Officer

How To File A Complaint Against A Police Officer - Bullies With A Badge

Home

May I also add.....

Civil Rights Division Home Page

[NotMallNinja]

So you will lie to the law enforcement officer during an investigation? and say you don't have one? that will land you in jail, and because you have a firearm, it has now become a felony.

Do you ask every person during a traffic stop if they are armed? Just wondering...