running of serial number

This is a discussion on running of serial number within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by F350 Plates are a revenue issue as much as anything, AND by their nature in "plain view" firearm SNs are not. It's ...

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Thread: running of serial number

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    Plates are a revenue issue as much as anything, AND by their nature in "plain view" firearm SNs are not.
    It's common in many arias for a cop to disarm a person during a stop and place the firearm on the roof of the car. Once unholstered, the serial number is in plain view. Covering the serial number can be probable cause because it's illegal to obscure the serial number.

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  3. #47
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    No, he just has to seize your property, that's all. And as I have said I keep black tape over all the SNs of guns I carry so plain view does not apply.
    A cop can just remove the tape since they have the right to make sure the serial number hasn't been tampered with. Once the tape is so removed, the number is in plain view and the cop can run it.

    So much fuss of a cop running a number. This is a trivial and petty thing to fight the system over. Do what you want, I guess, it's your bail.

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Thought it was illegal to modify or destroy a serial number, not to put tape on it.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    So much fuss of a cop running a number. This is a trivial and petty thing to fight the system over. Do what you want, I guess, it's your bail.
    The fuss is it is taking up my personal time, has nothing to do with the stop , and has nothing to do with officer safety to run the number. It is a fishing expedition. Do you want to spend time having them check out sn's of a TV that they can read that is sitting on your back seat?

  6. #50
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    Yeah, why make a fuss over 4th amendment protections .................. remember than when they come in your house without a warrant to check those serial numbers.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  7. #51
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    It is illegal (federal law) to obscure a serial number. Thinking that placing a peice of tape over it to keep it hidden from plain view is one of the most laughable things I have ever heard.

    I guarantee you that if I saw an obscured number on a gun, that alone would be PC to run the number. No one in their right mind does such a thing.

    Yeah, why make a fuss over 4th amendment protections .................. remember than when they come in your house without a warrant to check those serial numbers.
    We aren't there yet. At least not in this neck of the woods.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  8. #52
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    It is illegal (federal law) to obscure a serial number. Thinking that placing a peice of tape over it to keep it hidden from plain view is one of the most laughable things I have ever heard.

    I guarantee you that if I saw an obscured number on a gun, that alone would be PC to run the number. No one in their right mind does such a thing.



    We aren't there yet. At least not in this neck of the woods.
    What law and what words are used to say that obscuring a sn is illegal? many guns have grips that obscure the sn. Is it OK for the LEO to ask you to remove them? Just curious what the wording of the law is becasue it makes no sense to me. Now, I am in the camp of putting tape over is silly.

  9. #53
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    Has anyone heard from the OP ?? Thinking T word ; )
    H/D
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  10. #54
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    From the 1968 Gun Control Act:

    (k) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or
    receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the
    importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or
    manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered
    and has, at any
    time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
    Nothing says you can't cover the serial number up...unless somebody knows something I don't...always willing to learn

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    From the 1968 Gun Control Act:

    (k) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

    Nothing says you can't cover the serial number up...unless somebody knows something I don't...always willing to learn
    I am with you on this one though I personally would not bother putting a piece of tape over a serial number on a weapon I legally own. If one were to look up the definitions of removed, obliterated, or altered putting a piece of tape over a number would not suffice. Plus as others have said, depending on the weapon holstering a weapon would result in the same effect as covering up the serial number with a piece of tape.

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    Actually, in PA, there is no firearm registry, but there is a "partial database." Police who run serial numbers and do not find it registered (for any reason, even if the owner legally purchased it out of state), will often seize the firearm and require proof of ownership, even though this is in no way legal..

    The problem is in education, not saying the LEOs are going rogue... they think they have to seize them, but in fact they do not, and are sometime sued for doing so.
    This has a huge potential for abuse if what you say is true. I have no proof of ownership on the majority of my possessions. Weapons included.

    Michael

  13. #57
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    I called my IOI (Industry Operations Inspector) about the tape thing. Luckily for me,she had just returned from dove hunting. She specifically stated that intentionally covering a number to hid it from plain veiw was consided altering a number and even if it was temporary it didnt matter. She was very clear on this.

    Since its the ATF that makes the rules and interpret them, thats good enough for me.

    Y'all do and think whatever you want to.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  14. #58
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I called my IOI (Industry Operations Inspector) about the tape thing. Luckily for me,she had just returned from dove hunting. She specifically stated that intentionally covering a number to hid it from plain veiw was consided altering a number and even if it was temporary it didnt matter. She was very clear on this.

    Since its the ATF that makes the rules and interpret them, thats good enough for me.

    Y'all do and think whatever you want to.
    Personally I would agree with her reply. The part I highlighted is what most people either fail to realize or do not believe. Congress is not the only ones that can pass laws.

    Michael

  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Personally I would agree with her reply. The part I highlighted is what most people either fail to realize or do not believe. Congress is not the only ones that can pass laws.

    Michael
    Congress passes the laws and in so doing confers certain authority to implement them via regulations. At the end of the day courts get final say on constitutional matters (and most others until Congress revisits and clarifies/refines.

    Hence how we have CFR implementing laws.

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I called my IOI (Industry Operations Inspector) about the tape thing. Luckily for me,she had just returned from dove hunting. She specifically stated that intentionally covering a number to hid it from plain veiw was consided altering a number and even if it was temporary it didnt matter. She was very clear on this.

    Since its the ATF that makes the rules and interpret them, thats good enough for me.

    Y'all do and think whatever you want to.
    Ok, I'll buy the opinion of the ATF.....If I want a second I will go to Eric Holder. Not arguing just want to see it with my own eyes. Plenty of folks according to your IOI are in violation of law then by utilizing certain grips on different guns. I guess you go your way and I will go mine on this one.

    I don't see how "alter" in any sense of the English language can be confused with "covering"..you intentionally cover your sn when in a holster. Since you have a POC on this issue would yoou mind asking her if you put on different grips and it covers the sn if that is illegal? It would be nice to know.

    As far as the issue at hand, it is her opinion it sounds like. Many times a LEO arrests someone to only find out their opinion on the law or understanding was incorrect. In fact, it seems to happen more so with gun laws than many other laws.

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