running of serial number

[suntzu]

I'm sure that its different everywhere you go. What flys as routine in one locality might not ever be seen in another. Thats the thing, we have 50 different states represented here with 50 different laws. When people argue they are arguing from their locality and some fail to see that its not that way everywhere else.

Gotta love the internet.

I understand that but you know how I am about fact LOL. How about this:

once the cop has disarmed you, which they regularly do in my experience.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[ArmyMan]

The discussion in this thread ArmyMan is not what the cops can do it is what they can or cannot legally do. Of course a cop can do pretty much whatever he or she believes their career can handle. It's silly to even debate whether he [b]can[/] do it.

Yup, and a cop can legally stop you, and a cop can legally hold your firearm during the stop, and a cop can legally remove the tape, and a cop can legally run the serial number.

Tape changes nothing.

Filing a complaint with the department and/or writing a letter to your rep is the way to go.

[ArmyMan]

Where are you getting your stats from? Almost every person in this forum has said that the officer dows not disarm them. In fact, it seems very rare that they do.

Just as you are getting your 'states' from this forum, I am getting mine from other forums.

[suntzu]

Just as you are getting your 'states' from this forum, I am getting mine from other forums.

So, I want to get this clear...you are saying that overall in the IS that LEO's routinely or regularly disarm folks during traffic stops, not just in your local area. I know of one person in that ever had a LEO ask him to disarm and that was because the officer thought he was drinking. He was not and the officer realized it after a moment. In this forum and other gun fourms I seldom see where an officer has asked someone to disarm.

[ArmyMan]

So, I want to get this clear...you are saying that overall in the IS that LEO's routinely or regularly disarm folks during traffic stops, not just in your local area. I know of one person in that ever had a LEO ask him to disarm and that was because the officer thought he was drinking. He was not and the officer realized it after a moment. In this forum and other gun fourms I seldom see where an officer has asked someone to disarm.

Read the words, all the words and nothing but the words.

I said "can".

I did not say "routinely", I said "can".

It's happened to me before, it's happened to a couple people I personally know, and I've read about it happening to others on different forums. I've talked about this very thing with an E-5 in my platoon who's a cop. If the cop wants to disarm you during a stop, they can. This is the whole reason some states have a duty to inform. The cop can make a judgement call to disarm you, or not, their call on how they feel and how they interpret the situation.

If a cop decides to disarm you during a stop, tape isn't going to stop a damn thing.

[NotMallNinja]

It's happened to me before, it's happened to a couple people I personally know, and I've read about it happening to others on different forums. I've talked about this very thing with an E-5 in my platoon who's a cop. If the cop wants to disarm you during a stop, they can. This is the whole reason some states have a duty to inform. The cop can make a judgement call to disarm you, or not, their call on how they feel and how they interpret the situation.

If a cop decides to disarm you during a stop, tape isn't going to stop a damn thing.

You see, I heard otherwise. I talked to the best friend of my second cousin twice removed who knows a cop who is an E-2 in his squad and that guy said he can do whatever he wants.

[suntzu]

Read the words, all the words and nothing but the words.

I said "can".

I did not say "routinely", I said "can".

It's happened to me before, it's happened to a couple people I personally know, and I've read about it happening to others on different forums. I've talked about this very thing with an E-5 in my platoon who's a cop. If the cop wants to disarm you during a stop, they can. This is the whole reason some states have a duty to inform. The cop can make a judgement call to disarm you, or not, their call on how they feel and how they interpret the situation.

If a cop decides to disarm you during a stop, tape isn't going to stop a damn thing.

Nobody is debating whether a cop can...I am just saying that it does not happen all that often. You seem to differ. I say lets start a poll. I really doubt nation wide that more than 5 percent of stops with CC'ers involve the officer securing the weapon. I would imagine it is actually less.

As far as your words, I was para phrasing, sorry about that ....this is your words:

Officer learns you CCW. Officer asks for your weapon, as they do all the time, for the duration of the stop

[ArmyMan]

Nobody is debating whether a cop can...I am just saying that it does not happen all that often. You seem to differ. I say lets start a poll. I really doubt nation wide that more than 5 percent of stops with CC'ers involve the officer securing the weapon. I would imagine it is actually less.

As far as your words, I was para phrasing, sorry about that ....this is your words:

My point was to counter the idea that a cop holding a gun during a stop was an unreasonable search. It does happen 'all the time' in my city, we have a problem with natives and alcohol. Not to sound racist, but that's our local situation.

When it happens, it's not an unreasonable search, and tape isn't going to stop a cop from seeing or running your serial number.

[suntzu]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Done, with a final word.....nowhere can I find one person that says "alter" means "cover". The fact that grips are designed for certain revolvers and sold that cover serial numbers is just one example of how it is done. I have talked to a couple of LEO friends who said they would never arrest someone becasue a serial number was covered.
Don't know how anyone can interpret it differently. But again, I am not a lawyer. Just wondering if you are sticking to the statment you made earlier saying :

Covering the serial number can be probable cause because it's illegal to obscure the serial number.

[sgb]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Done, with a final word.....nowhere can I find one person that says "alter" means "cover". The fact that grips are designed for certain revolvers and sold that cover serial numbers is just one example of how it is done. I have talked to a couple of LEO friends who said they would never arrest someone becasue a serial number was covered.
Don't know how anyone can interpret it differently. But again, I am not a lawyer. Just wondering if you are sticking to the statment you made earlier saying :

Covering the serial number can be probable cause because it's illegal to obscure the serial number.

A fabricated argument

[HotGuns]

I rekon the ATF would care about that more than anyone else.

[lilmule]

Actually im from Tn,consider it my duty to inform the officer,not hide the fact,most importantly at a night stop where another is on other side of vehicle looking in.I doubt if they stop becuse of the firearm as unknown some traffic infraction or suspicion and a drug,gang area would be more inclined I think to get stopped in.
Serial numbers they can run all they want didnt buy any out of the back end of a van.
Should someone relieve me of mine I should get so lucky as a leo running the numbers.
Imagine his reaction if asked to step out and not informed say to walk a line or blow up a balloon,I have a 45 acp in the door which cannot be seen from anywhere outside the vehicle,yet plain view when opened.Peashooters on me 22.25.32 can reach one with either hand front or back.And he would get tired of emptying and making all safe trust me.They generally say go on as to much effort doesnt matter if i did a rolling stop rather than a stop,all is forgiven.

[F350]

That's not the direction I went. Set aside your dislike for my position on carrying onto private property on other threads and read the words I actually type on this thread.

Once the car has already been pulled over for other totally unrelated reasons....once the cop has disarmed you, which they regularly do...once the gun is already in the cop's hands for completely unrelated reasons...at that point that cop can remove any tape to view the serial number.

Tape isn't going to stop anything.

I don't give a crap about ANY positions you take and I am only referencing this post.

So once the stop is made does the cop have the "right" to search the car, open the trunk, search you other than a "Terry" pat down? NO

I realize the tape won't stop a cop from removing it and running the SN anyway....What it is for is for is to buttress the lawsuit as a violation of SCOTUS president set in Arizona v Hicks 480 U.S. 321.

[mcp1810]

I don't give a crap about ANY positions you take and I am only referencing this post.

So once the stop is made does the cop have the "right" to search the car, open the trunk, search you other than a "Terry" pat down? NO

I realize the tape won't stop a cop from removing it and running the SN anyway....What it is for is for is to buttress the lawsuit as a violation of SCOTUS president set in Arizona v Hicks 480 U.S. 321.

Arizona v Hicks is not relevent to a traffic stop. Hicks was in his apartment. You should read up on what is commonly refered to as the motor vehicle exception.
California v Acevedo
California v Carney
Wyoming v Houghton
for starters.

[CharlesMorri]

Hey guys, I need to apologize for my insulting posts and tone. It was counter productive and uncalled for and for that, I am sorry.