running of serial number

I hope this is the right section for my question. A little background of the scenario is this. I am a small business owner in Tennessee. When the housing market tanked my business slowed. When faced with losing my home of 11 years or my then 4 year old start up business my wife and I chose to keep and grow the business and let the house go. We moved dangerously close to a drug/gang infested neighborhood to rent. My father who passed in 2010 was a 30 plus year veteran of our local city pd. I am respectful and law abiding. In the 3 years that I have lived in this area I have been profiled for traffic stops twice. The first time I gave my license and carry permit. The officer made rude comments like "well I guess you are not a felon........since you have a permit". He then drilled me on where I purchased the weapon and whether or not it was stolen. He also ran the serial number to verify this. I immediately spoke to a task force officer who told me that it was an illegal search for that number to be run. Fast forward to 9-1-2012. I am stopped again on a bogus suspicion. I complied with every request but told the officer that I did not want him to run my weapon. I asked for his supervisor to be called. They told me that they had the right to run it. I disagree and would like any help to prove/disprove this. Sorry about the long thread. Al

I would say unless he has reasonable suspicion to believe the gun may be stolen then he is violating your 4th amendment rights,you can file a complaint with his department,or if you want to take it farther contact a lawyer,but lawyers ain't cheap

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Originally Posted by dukalmighty

I would say unless he has reasonable suspicion to believe the gun may be stolen then he is violating your 4th amendment rights,you can file a complaint with his department,or if you want to take it farther contact a lawyer,but lawyers ain't cheap

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^^^^^This^^^^^^

They have to have reasonable suspicion that the weapon is stolen, unless you gave them permission to run the numbers (even after your initial protest). If you did not give them permission, and they didn't have reasonable suspicion, you can file a complaint, or lawyer up.

I dont think so.

The way most state statutes are written, any police officer can run any gun, no differrent than them running your plates. They have the legal authority to do so.

While many wont if the encounter is routine, they could if they wanted to. In a high crime area, it is standard procedure for a cop to run any gun that they come across.

Is Tenn a must notify State? Once an Officer has knowledge that you're armed the courts have ruled it's reasonable for an officer to take temporary possession of the firearm if they feel you're a threat to their safety. Once the firearm is in their possession the ser # is in plain view and they can run it. Some Officers routinely abuse the courts ruling under the premise that all armed citizens pose a threat just so they can run the firearms ser #.

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Originally Posted by HotGuns

I dont think so.

The way most state statutes are written, any police officer can run any gun, no differrent than them running your plates. They have the legal authority to do so.

While many wont if the encounter is routine, they could if they wanted to. In a high crime area, it is standard procedure for a cop to run any gun that they come across.

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And that is why I never notify I am carrying or have a permit unless required by law. Something else to delay my travels when there is no reasonable suspicion to run the serial number

I would file a complaints against the unprofessionalism of these officers and note all wordings they use. Here are some links which may be helpful.

How to File an Effective Complaint Against a Police Officer

How To File A Complaint Against A Police Officer - Bullies With A Badge

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Originally Posted by HotGuns

I dont think so.

The way most state statutes are written, any police officer can run any gun, no differrent than them running your plates. They have the legal authority to do so.

While many wont if the encounter is routine, they could if they wanted to. In a high crime area, it is standard procedure for a cop to run any gun that they come across.

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They can run serial numbers, but only if they have reasonable suspicion to seize your weapon. That was more what I was getting at.

Shhhhhhh! I hear JD coming!

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They can run serial numbers, but only if they have reasonable suspicion to seize your weapon

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Wrong.
Unless it specifically prohibited by law, they dont need a reasonable suspicion. They can do if for no other reason that it's an official stop, they can temporarily take your gun for the duration of the stop, run the number if they choose to do so, and then hand the gun back.

They are authorized by law to do so. This has been held up by the courts. They need no other authorization.

Its no different than driving a car. If a cop wants to, he can run your tag when he is behind you at the stop light.He gets no hits from Dispatch and you drive on, never knowing that your plate has been run. It happens every day. He didnt need any reason to run it because it is legal for him to do so...as long as he did it for official purposes.

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Originally Posted by HotGuns

I dont think so.

The way most state statutes are written, any police officer can run any gun, no differrent than them running your plates. They have the legal authority to do so.

While many wont if the encounter is routine, they could if they wanted to. In a high crime area, it is standard procedure for a cop to run any gun that they come across.

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I'm not sure about TN. Some states it is an illegal seizure of the firearm if there is no RAS. Doing a "slow and go" at a stop sign provides the LEO with lawful authority to stop the car, but not RAS to seize personal property of the person (guns, watches, etc.) to check if its "stolen."

Maybe there's a statute in TN that allows this, but if not, the LEO's authority to do so likely rests on a sandy foundation.

Again, the authority to do so will likely rest on state statutes and case law of your state. You should check with an attorney in your state, because you'll just get answers that point out general principles that may or may not apply to your state.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by HotGuns

Wrong.
Unless it specifically prohibited by law, they dont need a reasonable suspicion. They can do if for no other reason that it's an official stop, they can temporarily take your gun for the duration of the stop, run the number if they choose to do so, and then hand the gun back.

They are authorized by law to do so. This has been held up by the courts. They need no other authorization.

Its no different than driving a car. If a cop wants to, he can run your tag when he is behind you at the stop light.He gets no hits from Dispatch and you drive on, never knowing that your plate has been run. It happens every day. He didnt need any reason to run it because it is legal for him to do so...as long as he did it for official purposes.

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you said exactly what I was going to say.

If you happend to get stopped...any officer can seize any gun for the duration of the stop...for no other reason than "officer safety".

Refusing to do so could be grounds to get your permit to carry revoked. Notice that I said "could", because I dont even pretend to know the laws of all the states.

I do know that the way many handgun laws are written, they clearly state that you must surrender you gun "upon demand" to any LEO.

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Originally Posted by HotGuns

Wrong.
Unless it specifically prohibited by law, they dont need a reasonable suspicion. They can do if for no other reason that it's an official stop, they can temporarily take your gun for the duration of the stop, run the number if they choose to do so, and then hand the gun back.

They are authorized by law to do so. This has been held up by the courts. They need no other authorization.

Its no different than driving a car. If a cop wants to, he can run your tag when he is behind you at the stop light.He gets no hits from Dispatch and you drive on, never knowing that your plate has been run. It happens every day. He didnt need any reason to run it because it is legal for him to do so...as long as he did it for official purposes.

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I know of no such law in my state (granted, I could be wrong, but I have tried to be very thorough in knowing PA's firearms laws). I know of such laws in Ohio, and I assume your home state, and many others, but we do not have to inform, and they are not allowed to seize our firearms unless they suspect that we have committed a crime or are about to commit a crime.

The OP's home state may also have laws allowing officers to take firearms during a stop, and in that case, my initial comments were wrong in his situation.

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Originally Posted by HotGuns

Wrong.
Unless it specifically prohibited by law, they dont need a reasonable suspicion. They can do if for no other reason that it's an official stop, they can temporarily take your gun for the duration of the stop, run the number if they choose to do so, and then hand the gun back.

They are authorized by law to do so. This has been held up by the courts. They need no other authorization.

Its no different than driving a car. If a cop wants to, he can run your tag when he is behind you at the stop light.He gets no hits from Dispatch and you drive on, never knowing that your plate has been run. It happens every day. He didnt need any reason to run it because it is legal for him to do so...as long as he did it for official purposes.

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Not entirely correct, the courts have ruled Officer must be fearful and taking possession is for Officer safety. A ruling often abused by LE to legitimize an otherwise unlawful violation of the 4th amendment.