2012 DNC platform plank on firearms

This is a discussion on 2012 DNC platform plank on firearms within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by ElMonoDelMar My point being that as President he has signed one pro-gun bill and zero anti-gun bills. What does his record as ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElMonoDelMar View Post
    My point being that as President he has signed one pro-gun bill and zero anti-gun bills. What does his record as a Senator look like?
    And lest we all forget: It's the congress that passes legislation. Without their consent, it goes nowhere. And when they opt to force something through anyway, it goes all the way. Point being, the congress is where the rubber meets the road, and where the truly important legislative muscle resides. (Exec orders and BLM/DOA/BATFE shenanigans notwithstanding.)
    Ransom likes this.
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  3. #32
    Member Array JJVP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWorkman View Post
    Obiwan, there's a follow-up.Dianne Feinstein has announced she will introduce the gun ban legislation. I wrote about it in Thursday's morning Examiner column. Dianne always gives me something to write about. Ban guns, boo God; is that the image Democrats want? - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com
    She had two years as House majority leader and didn't do it. She knew it would go no where and did not wanted to be embarrassed. After all, is not like she didn't have the time, since she did not have to spend time reading the bills she was voting for.

    Now that the Republicans are in the majority, she is safe. She can now say that it is the Republicans fault when it doesn't pass. How people keep electing that idiot is beyond me.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElMonoDelMar View Post
    I'm sure Obama has an anti-gun voting record, but I'd be curious to see what it is. Has anyone done any research already that would be able to give a list of anti-gun votes he took as a state and U.S. Senator? I'm sure the NRA has a record of it. Maybe someone that is familiar with their site can research and post it up?
    - Personally, I'm more worried about Obama's Supreme Court choices than his voting record. The two Supreme Court Justices he selected have been less than friendly when it comes to the 2A. Obama's selection will last THEIR lifetime.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote." ~ Benjamin Franklin

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post
    - Personally, I'm more worried about Obama's Supreme Court choices than his voting record. The two Supreme Court Justices he selected have been less than friendly when it comes to the 2A. Obama's selection will last THEIR lifetime.
    <nod>

    It's not this administration's policies I'm worried about, as much as what he can do that will affect us for the foreseeable future.
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    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

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  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    +1 on that. The appointment of federal judges and Supremes is the most powerful and the longest lasting effect a president has.
    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

    There's nothing that will change someone's moral outlook quicker than cash in large sums.

    Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array hudsonvalley's Avatar
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    Nice Dave...I also enjoy your articles in those magazines .... I saved the holster making one from a while back...good job.
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  8. #37
    Member Array Ransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorBob View Post
    I don't get that God given part... what does it say in the constition? I couldn't find any mention of God there.
    How do you derive this right from divine intervention?
    Quote Originally Posted by bmglock23 View Post
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure our rights are granted by the Constitution. But then again, based just on posts at this site, some people seem to worship the Constitution as a religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by hayzor View Post
    The constitution does not give us any rights - It guarantees us the rights we were born with. If you believe God sent you here, fine, if you believe you showed up out of chance, fine.
    Governments can only take away rights - The US Constitution does not take away our right to self preservation, via the 2nd ammendment.
    Hayzor said it right. To back up the notion of God-given rights, you should refer to the Declaration of Indepenence where it says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." The Constitution protects these rights; it does not grant them. If you don't believe in God or God-given rights, then you can understand these just as well as natural rights. For more info, see this article on Natural and Legal Rights. Any right that can be granted by your government, can be taken away by your government.
    phreddy and Brass63 like this.

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
    Hayzor said it right. To back up the notion of God-given rights, you should refer to the Declaration of Indepenence where it says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." The Constitution protects these rights; it does not grant them. If you don't believe in God or God-given rights, then you can understand these just as well as natural rights. For more info, see this article on Natural and Legal Rights. Any right that can be granted by your government, can be taken away by your government.
    Thank you.

    Our Founders understood very clearly that the only role governments ever take in our rights is to impede them. Remember that they had just broken free of a tyrannical government themselves. Our Constitution was designed to put limits on the way the government(s)* could impede our rights, because the Founders knew they were going to try.


    *when this nation was founded, the States were more independent from the Fed than they are now... I'm convinced that if you could have shown the Founders what the 21st Century looked like, they would have re-worded the Commerce Clause and the 2nd Amendment, among a few other things.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

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  10. #39
    Member Array BWBracelets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElMonoDelMar View Post
    That seems like a fair assessment of both Romney and Obama. Looks like neither one can make the claim to be better than the other on pro-gun issues.
    Seems to me that Obama and Romney are very similar in most regards and the similarities in the 2a policies confirm that. If you don't want to hold your nose and vote for a statist, anti 2A, big government politician who will say anything to get elected, or if you won't vote for Obama, there is a choice this November. You can vote for Gov. Gary Johnson who is very pro 2A! Check him out, it'll be worth your time.

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  11. #40
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BWBracelets View Post
    Seems to me that Obama and Romney are very similar in most regards and the similarities in the 2a policies confirm that. If you don't want to hold your nose and vote for a statist, anti 2A, big government politician who will say anything to get elected, or if you won't vote for Obama, there is a choice this November. You can vote for Gov. Gary Johnson who is very pro 2A! Check him out, it'll be worth your time.

    Black Widow Bracelets paracord bracelets
    Remember that in presidential elections, a vote for a third-party candidate is the same as staying home. At least with Romney, the party behind him is carrying a pro-gun platform, and I expect he will toe the party line on the issue, especially since he's been quoting it in interviews for the last year or so.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    Let's keep this gun related

    Yeah that plank is leading me to buy more high-cap mags
    Every paycheck has an "ammo" line item in the budget to keep our range habit fed... and that line item includes 2 new Pmags with every ammo order. Adds up pretty quickly and really reduces the amount of time spent stuffing mags at the range
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  13. #42
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Y'all better get it while you can (whatever it is). No matter what........any of our rights are subject at any time to the status quo. Soon there will be no well defined lines. Leaders can stab you in the back just like your fellow man. IMO.....quit worrying about what others can do to you and start making plans on what you can do for yourself when everyone else lets you down. Geez!
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  14. #43
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    2012 DNC platform plank on firearms

    Per the conventions of this forum, the topic needs to stay relevant to guns. Neither major candidate is worth anything in this regard and there is no 2A issue that alters my current position.

    I agree that their appointment of SCOTUS justices is probably one of the most important functions of the president. However, to assume that the R party candidate will nominate a pro-2A judge is a fallacy as well as a very dangerous assumption to make. Justices in both McDonald V Chicago and DC V Heller had Republican president appointees on both the majority and dissent side of the cases!

    The big take away is that being R does not equal pro-gun and being D does not equal anti; we've been over this several times in this forum. As with most things, it unwise to be a single issue voter and it is also unwise to assume that if someone shares your religion (or anything else) that they share your values too.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array livewire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    Per the conventions of this forum, the topic needs to stay relevant to guns. Neither major candidate is worth anything in this regard and there is no 2A issue that alters my current position.

    I agree that their appointment of SCOTUS justices is probably one of the most important functions of the president. However, to assume that the R party candidate will nominate a pro-2A judge is a fallacy as well as a very dangerous assumption to make. Justices in both McDonald V Chicago and DC V Heller had Republican president appointees on both the majority and dissent side of the cases!

    The big take away is that being R does not equal pro-gun and being D does not equal anti; we've been over this several times in this forum. As with most things, it unwise to be a single issue voter and it is also unwise to assume that if someone shares your religion (or anything else) that they share your values too.
    You're implying that this thread has drifted off of gun-relevant politics into general politics, and I don't think it has...

    While there are D- and R- politicians on both sides of the 'gun-rights' debate, I would point out that the majorities of these party members do indeed follow party lines. There are exceptions, and we should be aware of each person's views on the issue. But more importantly, the Democratic party and the Republican party have adopted anti- and pro-gun views, respectively. Individual politicians sometimes have different views, but when they do, they are breaking away from their parties.
    There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap - ballot - jury - ammo

    “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie: deliberate, continued, and dishonest; but the myth: persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.”
    -- John F. Kennedy

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    If you have not looked at their proposed AWB ... it is NOT just a ban on AR's. It bans every single semi-auto rifle that can hold a magazine, including the Ruger 10/22 rifle and Marlin .22 cal rifle. And.... BIG BIG "AND"........ ANY GUN can be added to the ban administratively that the AG deems necessary. Do you want Holder making that decision ??

    It gives a list of guns.... and we could not find "any" semi-auto rifle that was not banned. None. A Henry survival rifle..... banned... because it's a semi-auto and takes a magazine.

    Also... there is no "gun show loophole" .... that is to purely eliminate any 'private sales' of guns. So if I wanted to sell a hunting rifle to my brother, or give it to him, I could not do it without going thru an FFL. Now, thinking when you die .... that you would leave that gun to "Johnny" .... nope, wouldn't be legal without an FFL, etc.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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