Legal Q: What states disallow mere carry as justifying stop/detaining?

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Thread: Legal Q: What states disallow mere carry as justifying stop/detaining?

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Question Legal Q: What states disallow mere carry as justifying stop/detaining?

    Does your state (in the USA) specifically disallow the mere carrying of a firearm as being justification for being stopped, detained or queried for one's license/permit to carry?

    Or, do you know of a state that does?

    References/links to statutes much appreciated, if you do.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    According to the second Amendment of the Federal Constitution we all have the Right to keep and bear arms and the fourth gives us the right of not being singled out without cause. If this is really the law of the land, how can a State justify some other action?
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    Senior Member Array Happypuppy's Avatar
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    What you most likely want to search are Terry Stops. Also check "Stop and Frisk"
    Most states there is a requirement of probable cause. It is a bit vague in some states and cities of how they view that however.


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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happypuppy View Post
    What you most likely want to search are Terry Stops. Also check "Stop and Frisk"
    BTDT.

    Which is why I'm asking for CHL/carry people who know what's what in their states.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    FL allows only CC, no OC except under limited circumstances. So an LEO would need probable cause or reasonable suspicion that I had committed some crime to stop me, and if I'm CC'ing, how would he know? He wouldn't know until I felt there was a need to know, as FL has no "must notify" statute.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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    Re: Virginia

    http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinio...wp/1971061.pdf

    SNIP

    Although the informant’s information provided Officer Ingram with reasonable suspicion
    to believe appellant possessed a firearm, nothing in the record provided reasonable suspicion for
    the belief that this possession was illegal. “Absent some disqualifying status (being a felon,
    juvenile, or drug possessor) or situs (being in a place where weapons are forbidden), it is not a
    crime to possess a weapon.” Jackson v. Commonwealth, 41 Va. App. 211, 231, 583 S.E.2d 780,
    790 (2003) (en banc), rev’d on other grounds, 267 Va. 666, 594 S.E.2d 595 (2004). Further,
    nothing in the record indicated appellant was carrying the firearm in a legally proscribed manner,
    such as in a concealed fashion without a permit. See Code 18.2-308. The Commonwealth also
    concedes that appellant’s attempts to sell the handgun were not illegal 2 and, thus, that
    information about his sales efforts, standing alone, was insufficient to justify a Terry stop.

    SNIP

    Absent reasonable, articulable suspicion for a detention, Officer Ingram’s only immediate
    basis upon which to approach appellant was to attempt to engage him in a consensual encounter
    in the hope of gaining additional information that might provide the requisite reasonable,
    articulable suspicion for a detention or probable cause for an arrest. If Officer Ingram felt
    attempting a consensual encounter was too dangerous under the circumstances, based on his
    knowledge that appellant likely was armed, he could have avoided appellant altogether, waited
    until additional officers had arrived, or conducted additional investigation in a way not involving
    direct contact with appellant in an effort to obtain more definitive information regarding the
    existence of an outstanding warrant.

    Because Officer Ingram lacked reasonable, articulable suspicion to detain appellant, we
    hold the trial court erred in denying appellant’s motion to suppress the firearm and
    accompanying statements. Thus, we reverse appellant’s conviction and dismiss the indictment.
    Reversed and dismissed.
    OTOH, at traffic stop, officer safety does justify frisking and disarming.
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    Let's flip this. What states allow mere possession as a reason to stop and detain? I'm thinking a short list.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Let's flip this. What states allow mere possession as a reason to stop and detain? I'm thinking a short list.
    Let's not. Might be good for a different/new thread, though.

    My question was regarding carry/detaining.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, it's just semantics as we've seen if cops are ignorant of the law or don't care, they're gonna stop you anyway.

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    Just got this from my Florida Carry news letter

    FL Attorney General Pam Bondi’s position is that anyone carrying a gun should always be presumed to be a committing a felony. And apparently, everyone is carrying…
    Florida AG Says Carrying a Gun is Always Presumably a Crime | All Nine Yards

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    It's amazing how AG's get their jobs sometimes. The other way to look at it is if someone is carrying concealed (especially in a holster), a reasonable assumption is that they have passed an FBI background check. MO's AG decided that fixed blade knives weren't covered under the concealed carry law and the city of Columbia paid for it.

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    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    In WA OC is legal, and case law has determined that a holstered gun is not sufficient reason to stop you. Now, you still might need to explain that to the officer that stops you anyway. But you are good under the law. The law will be on your side all the way through the system if you get the wrong guy in the wrong county.

    Most of them are aware of the rules, but like most places and people, not everyone will be on the same page. Larger cities are ususally the problem where they get the MWAG call and "have to investigate".
    Walk softly ...

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    Member Array SFCDan's Avatar
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    a friend of mine was temporarily disarmed in MA (where I live) when he was involved in an auto accident and he advised he was carrying. The LEO temporarily handcuffed him on the side of the road, took his weapon and checked his credentials. Once all checked out his weapon was returned empty and he was advised not to reload it until the LEO drove off. As a note applicable or not he is from NH and is licensed in MA also.
    Former US Army SFC
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    Should I be arrested for legally carrying a firearm, I'll leave the first space open on my lawsuit for Ms. Bondi. We are not "guilty until proven innocent."
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Just another good reason not to visit Florida. If their chief LEO cannot understand the law and the US & FL constitutions, then I see no reason to spend vacation $$$ there.
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