Gun buster signs and NO-GUN employers

This is a discussion on Gun buster signs and NO-GUN employers within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Mike1956 How would you feel if the government said that Satanists, the KKK or the Neo-Nazis are no longer afforded protections guaranteed ...

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Thread: Gun buster signs and NO-GUN employers

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array Pythius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    How would you feel if the government said that Satanists, the KKK or the Neo-Nazis are no longer afforded protections guaranteed by the US Constitution?
    I would be against that, as I support freedom of speech.

    ....but only on public property.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    I would be against that, as I support freedom of speech.

    ....but only on public property.
    So, you don't think they should be allowed to be Satanists, Klan members or Neo-Nazis on private property?
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  4. #33
    Ex Member Array Pythius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    So, you don't think they should be allowed to be Satanists, Klan members or Neo-Nazis on private property?
    um......nope.

    I should have the right to keep protestors off my land.

    I should also have the right to keep other people's guns off my land.

    its MY land.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Again, where in the constitution are private property rights addressed?
    That is the absolute wrong question. Where in the Constitution is the government granted power to infringe upon private property rights? If that isn't there, then guess what. Neither is that power.

  6. #35
    Ex Member Array Pythius's Avatar
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    all powers not expressly given to the Congress, automatically go to the States or the People, respectively.

    that includes the power to infringe upon private-property rights.

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array jblives2ride's Avatar
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    and as you have the right to put up signs in your retail shops we have and usually choose to go elsewhere with our money...
    CaveJohnson likes this.
    I would rather live my life as if there is a God,
    And die to find out there isn't, than live my life
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  8. #37
    Ex Member Array Pythius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblives2ride View Post
    and as you have the right to put up signs in your retail shops we have and usually choose to go elsewhere with our money...
    100%, you have that right.

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array jblives2ride's Avatar
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    I have quit banking at a credit union I've used for over ten years and three car loans becuase they put a gun buster sign up.. I also went straigt to the loan officer I've been doing business with and asked why. Then promptly paid off my loan and removed my money haven't went back...oh and the bank is Texhoma credit union...
    I would rather live my life as if there is a God,
    And die to find out there isn't, than live my life
    As if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
    God Bless

  10. #39
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    So someone educate me, here, as we are talking about civil rights.

    Consider a privately-owned retail store. How is posting a "no guns" sign different than posting a "no Christians" (use your ethnic or religious group of choice) sign? How is one considered an expression of private property rights, yet the other is not?
    Smitty
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  11. #40
    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    So someone educate me, here, as we are talking about civil rights.

    Consider a privately-owned retail store. How is posting a "no guns" sign different than posting a "no Christians" (use your ethnic or religious group of choice) sign? How is one considered an expression of private property rights, yet the other is not?
    Simple, the former is not "PC" the latter is "PC".
    In today's world anything that is "Politically Correct" takes precedent, in society, in the media, in the law. This is why we must get rid of the idiotic "PC" rules that our society is promoting and enforcing.
    This is the basis of my theory that "In most people education and common sense is inversely proportional" in that 'common sense' and being "PC" cannot survive in the same container.
    LEARN something today so you can TEACH something tomorrow.
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  12. #41
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    Kudos to the boycotters. But let's have respect for our 2A - second-highest law immediately following the Constitution and the First Amendment before we start arguing signs. Too much is "infringed" from where I sit in LA County. Maybe it's time for a second declaration of independence from the mealy minds outside of the U.S. (though we have our share) who spout that even violent criminal assailants in the act of violent assault have rights.
    Let's recognize that government stands between a lot of us and our Constitutional rights - that a lot of us are receiving the same tactics of control that historically befell the outcast races - before we question the effects of signs in shop windows. Are private business owners echoing a government that won't defend the lives or the rights of its citizens? Let's not forget that until we have full respect for 2A freedom by our government, then we don't have full freedom under the Constitution, and we don't have free markets.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  13. #42
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    Consider a privately-owned retail store. How is posting a "no guns" sign different than posting a "no Christians" (use your ethnic or religious group of choice) sign? How is one considered an expression of private property rights, yet the other is not?
    Gasmitty. Simply because freedom of religion is protected by the Constitution and per Federal law it is unlawful to discriminate based on race, religion, handicap and so on. Concealed carry holders/gun owners are not an ethnic group or handicapped.

    Lets say an employer allows an employee to carry on his premises but he mandates that the employee receive "X" amount of hours of training and show proficiency and qualify on a regular basis before he can carry. Is that a reasonable request? I think so.
    As has been stated if Billy the grocery sacker is carrying his super magnum blaster and attempts to stop a robbery and someone is injured or killed Billy won't get sued, the property owner will. Under the law of Vicarious Liability the employer is responsible for what the employee does.

    In regards to the posts about people simply won't spend their money there. The store does not care. Oh there may be a short term furor and uprising but as soon as the person is inconvienced or it disrupts their or their families daily routine it is back to normal. I worked several retail stores security as an off duty officer for a long time and I cannot count the time that I heard people say "I will never shop here again" and two days later they were back.

    Just like other topics on here you have to make your own decision. If you are going to avoid places that are posted/anti gun and so on go all out but your life is going to be pretty boring and employment may be limited as many corporations are anti as are medical, nursing, unions, governing church bodies, actors, athletes, singers and so on.

    It comes down to what is my property/business I have the say as to what goes on there or comes into my store. I am the one held responsible if something happens. Just because you let the average CC'er, OC'er or whatever come into your business does not mean that automatically make that a safe place to be. All it takes is one determined indivdual.
    If they don't have the training and mindset to handle the situation they are simply and armed victim. Think of how many times we have all read posts on here asking is it ok to carry a round in the chamber or on another forum one of my favorites "Which gun intimidates the bad guy the best? or a big nickel plated gun is more manly to carry. Do you really want this guy wandering around you or your family waiting to drop the bad guy with one or twenty seven shots or in the general direction of the threat?

    Lastly where do you draw the line? If you allow people to carry does that mean that now someone can walk into the store, restaurant or whatever with an AK in their hand? We don't know these people from Adam but yet we are to assume they are safe in their gun handling and can shoot. If this guy is walking around the store with a rifle lets say he feels that in order to be totally prepared he carries with the safety off, round chambered hand on the pistol grip ready to shoot the bad guy where do you draw the line, what would be the limits or qualifications set?
    Brad426 likes this.
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  14. #43
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    So someone educate me, here, as we are talking about civil rights.

    Consider a privately-owned retail store. How is posting a "no guns" sign different than posting a "no Christians" (use your ethnic or religious group of choice) sign? How is one considered an expression of private property rights, yet the other is not?
    Most folks that bring up civil rights are the ones against gun buster signs thinking they discriminate. Here is a very simple difference:
    Civil rights protect PEOPLE
    a gun is a THING

    The signs do not say "No people who like guns are allowed" or "No people who own guns are allowed"

    It is not a civil rights issue, should never be, and quite frankly don't know why it is being treated as such.
    Brad426 and Pythius like this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

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  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Most folks that bring up civil rights are the ones against gun buster signs thinking they discriminate. Here is a very simple difference:
    Civil rights protect PEOPLE
    a gun is a THING

    The signs do not say "No people who like guns are allowed" or "No people who own guns are allowed"

    It is not a civil rights issue, should never be, and quite frankly don't know why it is being treated as such.
    It seems so simple...
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

  16. #45
    Ex Member Array Pythius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    So someone educate me, here, as we are talking about civil rights.

    Consider a privately-owned retail store. How is posting a "no guns" sign different than posting a "no Christians" (use your ethnic or religious group of choice) sign? How is one considered an expression of private property rights, yet the other is not?
    guns aren't people.

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