Raging Against Self Defense: A psychiatrist Examines The Anti-Gun Mentality

This is a discussion on Raging Against Self Defense: A psychiatrist Examines The Anti-Gun Mentality within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg Jesus isn't a pacifist, He just had a different mission for his first visit than His second But you're right. There ...

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Thread: Raging Against Self Defense: A psychiatrist Examines The Anti-Gun Mentality

  1. #16
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    Jesus isn't a pacifist, He just had a different mission for his first visit than His second

    But you're right. There are others who have made the choice that fighting, or fighting back, is never a good thing, and no facts about firearm ownership, crime rates, etc. will change their minds. The article spoke to that, and a true pacifist will seek to peacefully reason with others to have them see it their way. Someone like Schumer doesn't work that way. They know the facts about firearm ownership and they reject it for their own selfish purposes. I respect a true and consistent pacifist. I don't respect an emotionally-disturbed individual who seeks to project their insecurities onto everyone else and then judge them for it. In the scriptures, this issue would be about the pharisee vs. the weaker brother.
    Amen to the part in bold.
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I don't know what anti's other folks know but the ones I know are not idiots. They have a different viewpoint. I have seen that article before and IMO it is ridiculus. Take for example the following "ideas" the author thinks will work:

    "So you fear if your neighbors had guns, they would use them to murder you. What makes you think that?"
    If I tried a line like that to some of the anti's I know they would pause, look at me and then slap me on the shoulder and say "we thought you were serious!".
    I've met two such people who equated carrying a firearm to impending criminality, essentially stating much the same as in that quote from the essay. One is a relative of mine; the other, not. Point is: the thought does indeed exist, out there, amongst dyed-in-the-wool anti's.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #18
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    I don't think intelligence necessairly has anything to do with people's emotional response. I agree with the article and "projection" is really common among the anti-gun group. For instance, my sister has a PhD and is anti-gun. When I ask her why she always says something like, "because guns kill". OMG, stop the presses! Guns can kill!
    She has also mentioned the exact scenerio in the article...your neighbor could go off on you and shoot up the neighborhood.

    There are some people who refuse to accept that there are good reasons to carry a gun. The article addresses a lot of their psychological issues and is very insightful. This doesn't mean people are "crazy", with the exception of Chucky Shumer, it just means they have fears that aren't based on reality.
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    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

  5. #19
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    As long as people don't want to revoke others' right to self defense, they can think whatever they wish.

    I can't understand relying on the police, they will not be there in time to save you most or all of the time. They may get there for a hostage situation, or after it's over, but not before.

    That being said, laws allowing self defense everywhere can't be vague or applied in different ways as Stand Your Ground seemingly can be.

  6. #20
    Member Array nazshooter's Avatar
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    Re: Raging Against Self Defense: A psychiatrist Examines The Anti-Gun Mentality

    Pacifists aren't a problem since they wouldn't support using force to prevent you from owning/carrying a firearm anyway.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    There are definitely a few people that I admire who have, for some reason, made that choice(to be pacifist).

    A few examples: Jesus, Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr.
    You really need to read up on Jesus. The man took matters into his own hands and lived as an example to all who would follow him. He was afraid of nothing, and was no victim.

    As far as the article goes, it has some interesting thoughts. It's nothing earthshattering, and the bias of the author shows clearly at times.
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  8. #22
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nazshooter View Post
    Pacifists aren't a problem since they wouldn't support using force to prevent you from owning/carrying a firearm anyway.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
    That is a really good point.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    When I took a psyc 101 class one of the first things the prof told us is that if you ask how long you'll be in therapy they'll probably tell you 7 yrs and then promptly told us that most people can work out their problems on their own in about 7 yrs. Not knocking it for people with deeper problems, but that makes a lot of it suspect in my book. Additionally, this is a group that, literally, takes "taking things out of context" to a professional level. It seems the people that these techniques are aimed at have deeper issues that can't be addressed in a casual conversation or a simple article.

    The true anti-gun people are a minority and not a great threat and not worth the time it takes to break through their irrational fears (unless they are already a part of your life - but that's an individual matter). What's really important is communicating with the majority of people who are not really interested one way or the other - the fence sitters; those are the ones that make a difference when it's time to vote. They aren't worried about the normal guy snapping, they're worried about the general nutcase, criminals, and accidental shootings; they don't need convincing about the dangers of the world, but they are content not thinking about it. All that's needed is a rational discussion and a bit of perspective and education. If your conversation includes yelling or nastiness, just quit wasting your time.

  10. #24
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    Many, if not most people are afraid or uncomfortable with what they do not know or understand. That’s an easy fix.

    It has been my overwhelming experience that people who are anti-gun are driven to that position by emotions, not facts. Just look at the content of the information they get.

    If I find myself engaged in a conversation with someone who is anti-gun, civil, and willing to allow me to detail some facts, listen to their concerns – and I really mean listen – so I can speak to those, it is a positive interaction. I’m not going to change their mind, but if I can give them pause or a desire to look further into the facts of our conversation, mission accomplished. Let me have an opportunity to speak with them again at a later date, or better yet, some other pro-gun person who will do the same with them, then this is good.

    Alternately, there are those whose minds are made up and they don't want to be confused with the facts. With those, I avoid the topic altogether.

    To most of these people, every one of us represents all of us, and because of that we are charged with the responsibility of being good ambassadors for all firearm owners.

    Most anti-gunners are one violent experience away from being pro-gun…
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    NRA Certified Instructor - RSO - Life Member

    The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them.
    -Albert Einstein

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Good read but to be honest...I just don't worry about what the antis have to say.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
    Ronald Reagan

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPro.40 View Post
    Good read but to be honest...I just don't worry about what the antis have to say.
    I wouldn't either, if it weren't for the continuing destructive impact such cross-pollination can have on the voting mind.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #27
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    Personally I don't think they put that much thought into it.

    It is the same with those that say "I don't like motorcycles, they are dangerous" but yet have never ridden one or even sat on one. Many anti gun sentiments come and go like the tide it simply all depends on who is controlling the water.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Personally I don't think they put that much thought into it.

    It is the same with those that say "I don't like motorcycles, they are dangerous" but yet have never ridden one or even sat on one. Many anti gun sentiments come and go like the tide it simply all depends on who is controlling the water.
    Disagree. A news item about an accident on motorcycles is one thing. But a diatribe about the illogic and danger of them and what must be done about it is, basically, a call to arms to anyone listening. It's about the underlying motivation driving the writing. One's about telling you Bob died in a crash, while the other is seeking your support in pushing for further restrictions on motorcycles, helmets, whatever.

    Seems to me that it is THAT motive that we've got to resist, with the liberty haters, merely due to the fact that so many listeners are unthinking lemmings when it comes to doing what others suggest (aka, the "water controllers," as you point out). Can't afford to be complacent, with so many shots being taken at the Constitution and our ostensibly protected liberties.
    tacman605 and dfjonathon like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Great read. Long but worth it. Thanks for posting!
    ShooterGranny likes this.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

  16. #30
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    CCW9mm. I agree to a point. As others have stated though someone who is hardcore, died in the wool, truly anti gun for whatever reason I don't believe we will ever change there mind. I compare them to a yellow dog democrat. No matter what republican is running they would vote for a yellow dog instead.

    The lemmings on the other hand as we agree on simply follow the ebb and flow of public opinion and there is a better than average chance that they would listen to reason and common sense, there's that word again, now whether they would hold to that commitment is another story. All it would take is one moment of Oooooooooooh look shiny, and they would follow someone else.

    Yep complacency kills but I also think we have to go about it the right way so as not to end up in the same fate as California OC'ers who, in my opinion, pushed way to hard and although they wanted attention they got the wrong kind of attention and it cost them.

    Please note no offense was intended to any yellow dog's with my comment.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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