Election over, U.N. back at arms trade treaty talks...

This is a discussion on Election over, U.N. back at arms trade treaty talks... within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The Democrats can't ratify a treaty without some Republicans coming to help. The need 66 votes, they have 55. And suntzu, you're right that I ...

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  1. #16
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    The Democrats can't ratify a treaty without some Republicans coming to help. The need 66 votes, they have 55.

    And suntzu, you're right that I don't know what's in it. If it turns out to be nothing, so be it. But until I know that it is nothing to worry about I'll go ahead and keep paying attention and letting my Senators know exactly what I think of the possibility of allowing the UN to dictate any policy to the United States.
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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    After Obama win, U.S. backs new U.N. arms treaty talks - Yahoo! News

    "We seek a treaty that contributes to international security by fighting illicit arms trafficking and proliferation, protects the sovereign right of states to conduct legitimate arms trade, and meets the concerns that we have been articulating throughout," the official said.


    "We will not accept any treaty that infringes on the constitutional rights of our citizens to bear arms," he said.

    U.S. officials have acknowledged privately that the treaty under discussion would have no effect on domestic gun sales and ownership because it would apply only to exports.



    ...this is why I'm not concerned.
    As the OP, I'm going to make an observation here that is not intended as a personal affront to anyone, but is simply a reminder. The gun control we have now didn't happen all at once, it was incremental. You know, that "reasonable first step" nonsense.

    It's like that on the national and local level, so why wouldn't it be the same on an international scale? There is no reason to believe that the people backing this will be satisfied and not come back for more 3 to 5 years over the horizon.

    These guys have behavior patterns, and so far, they've been true to form.

    I'm not saying anybody should get excited about this. I simply reported what happened to day and passed it along for your attention.

    Being an old guy, I've had a chance to see the gun prohibitionists at work for a few decades, and one thing about them is that they are determined, through successive generations. These guys aren't concerned that they can't rob you today because they have their eye on tomorrow.
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWorkman View Post
    As the OP, I'm going to make an observation here that is not intended as a personal affront to anyone, but is simply a reminder. The gun control we have now didn't happen all at once, it was incremental. You know, that "reasonable first step" nonsense.

    It's like that on the national and local level, so why wouldn't it be the same on an international scale? There is no reason to believe that the people backing this will be satisfied and not come back for more 3 to 5 years over the horizon.

    These guys have behavior patterns, and so far, they've been true to form.

    I'm not saying anybody should get excited about this. I simply reported what happened to day and passed it along for your attention.

    Being an old guy, I've had a chance to see the gun prohibitionists at work for a few decades, and one thing about them is that they are determined, through successive generations. These guys aren't concerned that they can't rob you today because they have their eye on tomorrow.
    In bold: Yes, we all understand the camel nose under the tent flap theory and it is true. But.....stop for a second and look at through the eyes of legislation that changed many things in this country. Equal rights for women, gays, civil rights, handicapped access laws, work place safety, and there are more. They ALL start as incremental steps. Almost all changes, good and bad, are incremental steps.

    So what makes gun laws any different. I am not debating rights and wrongs, just saying this is common place in a society over a period of time.

    Now, back to the treaty. Who gives a hoot if the UN makes incremental steps? It only matters if ourr Senate ratifies the treaty and the President signs it. And even then if it passes judicial challenges the next POTUS can tear the thing up. It is not a life altering event. It can be turned back.

    And again, there are many gun toting Dems out there that would murder thier lawmakers if they ratify any treaty that affect their guns.
    And yet once again, most of what was going to be in the last ATT could be accomplished by individual nations not exporting to the US under their own commerce and trade laws.
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  5. #19
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    Let's all remember that the Federal assault-weapons ban became law...and then ceased to be law.

    A very strong gun-control law was ended..and has yet to return.

    Food for thought.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    Let's all remember that the Federal assault-weapons ban became law...and then ceased to be law.

    A very strong gun-control law was ended..and has yet to return.

    Food for thought.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_C View Post
    NRA: "U.N. is gonna take our guns! Quick! Give us money!"

    Shades of Oral Roberts asking for millions or God will take him home..............
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    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  8. #22
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    Concerned? You bet. Only a fool would not be.

    Democrats. The UN. Obama. Clinton. Pelosi. Assault Weapons ban. Gun Control. Put them all in the same sentence and tell me what good will come from it.

    The Democrats have told the world that they want another Assault Weapons Ban. To them, an assault weapon is any weapon that they don't like the looks of. Got a pistol grip? Detachable magazine?

    The Socialist states of California,Connecticut,Massachusetts, New Jersey,New York and Illinois decided to keep it.

    Someone tell me, what have they got to lose by trying it? Not a danged thing. At some point in time it will happen and all you naysayers out there will wonder what in the heck happened...but by then it will be too late.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Concerned? You bet. Only a fool would not be.

    Someone tell me, what have they got to lose by trying it? Not a danged thing. At some point in time it will happen and all you naysayers out there will wonder what in the heck happened...but by then it will be too late.
    While you and many others make a good point, the reality to all of this is we, and the likes of us, have very little(or no) control over this issue. Most we have is hope and prayer.....
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    Let's all remember that the Federal assault-weapons ban became law...and then ceased to be law.

    A very strong gun-control law was ended..and has yet to return.

    Food for thought.
    What we are talking about here is a treaty with the UN, not a domestic law. Our constitution states that ALL treaty's MUST be honored.

    Is the treaty something to worry about? We all know how diligent our representives in the house and senate are at considering legislature that affects us all, they will just have to sign it to see what's in it.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Concerned? You bet. Only a fool would not be.

    Democrats. The UN. Obama. Clinton. Pelosi. Assault Weapons ban. Gun Control. Put them all in the same sentence and tell me what good will come from it.

    The Democrats have told the world that they want another Assault Weapons Ban. To them, an assault weapon is any weapon that they don't like the looks of. Got a pistol grip? Detachable magazine?

    The Socialist states of California,Connecticut,Massachusetts, New Jersey,New York and Illinois decided to keep it.

    Someone tell me, what have they got to lose by trying it? Not a danged thing. At some point in time it will happen and all you naysayers out there will wonder what in the heck happened...but by then it will be too late.
    You were wrong in JUly this year and sir, you will continue to be wrong about the US signing AND ratifying any treaty the usurps our Constitution. As far as the states are concerned.......it is a state issue, not a federal statute. Heck, lots of folks here did not want a federal law granting reciprocity for CCP's. A lot thought it best to keep it at the state level.

    And as far as predictions: Nostrodomas had thousands of them vaguly worded with no exact dates or approximate dates.......a few were bound to come true.

    And again since I do not think you or others get it. We naysayer are concerned about anything that can affect 2A rights. We do not have our heads in the sand. And in fact, study the issues as much or more than the Chicken Little folks. I looked at some of the comments from July and I could not beleive how many Chicken Littles out there had no clue about the ATT, what was in it or suppose to be, et al. All I know is gun orgs calimed it will pass and things we were doomed and kept asking for money and then they claimed victory after the ATT was dead in the water because other countries did not like it. (Which BTW I predicted 2 months out that is what would happen)
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  12. #26
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    Our constitution states that ALL treaty's MUST be honored.
    Not according to the US Supreme Court.

  13. #27
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    You were wrong in JUly this year and sir, you will continue to be wrong about the US signing AND ratifying any treaty the usurps our Constitution
    I sincerely hope that I continue to be wrong.

    We have a President, and an administration that is hostile to gun ownership and makes statements to that fact. The constantly usurp the Constitution as a matter of routine...and they get away with it At some point in time...they will get their wish. As for Congress stepping up...you're talking about the one that passed Obamacare and many of them admitted to not reading the several thousand pages of it or reading it at all before voting on it.
    You are depending on THEM to do the job?

    We are hosed.

    I heard the same kind of crap on the first "assault weapons ban". Wouldn't happen here. Congress wouldn't let it. Its unconstitutional. It wont stand before the Supremes and blah blah blah. Most gun owners were thumping their chests and saying they'd fight it to the death. We had a few Congressmen and Senators get some air time about it would never happen on their watch, or they represent gun owners and hunters from so-so state and will spend every minute awake fighting the bill.

    And people like you said it wont happen here and cited legal reasons for this not being able to happen and for than not being able to happen because of this law or that law and even ridiculed people that didn't see it like them.

    And guess what...

    It still happened.

    At some point in the future it will happen and this administration, the most corrupt and inept that I have seen in my lifetime, will not stop until they make it so.
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  14. #28
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    We are hosed all the way around. Fscally this country is screwed.
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    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  15. #29
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    The only thing I will add to this conversation is. I DO NOT TRUST THIS CURRENT GOVERNMENT. I tried that last time and got Obama Care!
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    After Obama win, U.S. backs new U.N. arms treaty talks - Yahoo! News

    "We seek a treaty that contributes to international security by fighting illicit arms trafficking and proliferation, protects the sovereign right of states to conduct legitimate arms trade, and meets the concerns that we have been articulating throughout," the official said.


    "We will not accept any treaty that infringes on the constitutional rights of our citizens to bear arms," he said.

    U.S. officials have acknowledged privately that the treaty under discussion would have no effect on domestic gun sales and ownership because it would apply only to exports.



    ...this is why I'm not concerned.
    So you're not concerned because of the words that came out of a politician's mouth???

    How old are you???

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