What do Gun Owners Really Want?

This is a discussion on What do Gun Owners Really Want? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by retsupt99 How does restricting gun rights on victims make victims safer? Tighten up the gun laws for criminals...commit a crime or have ...

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  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    How does restricting gun rights on victims make victims safer?
    Tighten up the gun laws for criminals...commit a crime or have an illegal gun? You get 20 years to life, no early out.

    A young gang thug caught with a gun? He'll have 20 years to think about trying it again.
    Works for me...
    I'm not trying to be argumentative but having to pay $500,000 so he can learn his lesson does not work for me.
    https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...-incarceration
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations” – James Madison 1788

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    What do Gun Owners Really Want?
    I'd like to see: the fed/state/local folks off our backs regarding the 2A and weapons-related intrusion; the 2A restored to its rightful untrammeled, uninfringed status; all gun statutes nullified/repealed; and the F portion of the BATFE eliminated.

    What would other gun owners want? Dunno. You'd have to ask them.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  4. #48
    Member Array surferbum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapnketel View Post
    Murder yes, but other violent crimes GB leads the way (assault, rape, robbery). Also, look at all the European countries with gun control, many have higher murder rates and violent crime rates.

    NationMaster - Crime stats: United Kingdom vs United States


    Thanks kapnketel for the website. Unfortunately the stats from the website tend to support my friends argument that the murder-rate declines significantly when guns are removed from England.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surferbum View Post
    I was having a discussion with some friends about guns and their need. They bring up England as one example for gun control and its direct effect on reducing murder. England has 1/4 the homicide rate per capita vs. the US. What are some thoughts on why the same thing wouldn't work here?
    why is it that states with strict gun control have higher violent crime rates than those with lax gun control? How did D.C get the homicide Capitol "honor" when guns were outlawed for so long there? As far as need, if government is allowed to determine needs, what stops them from restricting anything?
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  6. #50
    Member Array billstaf's Avatar
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    I want things to stay the way they are right now. I can walk into any gun shop here in Oregon and buy anything that doesn't require a federal tax stamp, pass an almost instant background check, and leave with my purchase in about 5 minutes. (Depending on how busy the store is). I can purchase any kind of ammo I want, and any accessories that I want. Gun purchasing and gun ownership here in Oregon is as good as it gets anyplace. (We are a blue state too!)

    What I would like to see is some much stiffer penalties for crimes committed with a firearm. If you use a gun to commit a crime, you should go away for a very long time. Those of us who are legitimate gun owners are NOT THE PROBLEM. Gun wielding criminals are the problem and always will be. I don't know what it is going to take to get this idea through to the non-gun knowledgeable public, but if we can find a way to separate those of us who are law abiding citizens from those who are not, we'll go a long way to defusing the gun ownership controversy.
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  7. #51
    Member Array surferbum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mulle46 View Post
    why is it that states with strict gun control have higher violent crime rates than those with lax gun control? How did D.C get the homicide Capitol "honor" when guns were outlawed for so long there? As far as need, if government is allowed to determine needs, what stops them from restricting anything?
    I understand your point but I don't think the conclusion is valid since state boundaries are very porous for guns, cigarettes or alcohol. This is often allowed so that neighboring states' retailers can sell more. Does anyone have any stats on the origin of guns used in murder cases? What percentage were bought in a neighboring state, stolen from some legal owner or smuggled into the US?

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    What exactly do you want to know? So-called straw purchases? Are you saying that the U.S should follow England and ban all guns? Where would you stop? Banning automobiles? Alcohol? Both are responsible for more deaths yearly than firearms, in as much as objects can cause death. Meaning, it isn't the object, it's the Person in control of the object.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  9. #53
    Member Array surferbum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surferbum View Post
    I understand your point but I don't think the conclusion is valid since state boundaries are very porous for guns, cigarettes or alcohol. This is often allowed so that neighboring states' retailers can sell more. Does anyone have any stats on the origin of guns used in murder cases? What percentage were bought in a neighboring state, stolen from some legal owner or smuggled into the US?
    Quote Originally Posted by mulle46 View Post
    What exactly do you want to know? So-called straw purchases? Are you saying that the U.S should follow England and ban all guns? Where would you stop? Banning automobiles? Alcohol?
    I was only asking a question about statistics. If anyone knows or can point to the information that can help answer the question then I would be better informed. To simply restate my question: What is the factual percentage breakdown for the origins of guns used for homicides in the US? (e.g., 50% legally bought in different state, 29% stolen from legal owner, 21% imported to US illegally) I understand that sometimes the gun used in a homicide is unknown so therefore I'm only asking about ones found by the police.

  10. #54
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    I don't know if anyone has legitimately tracked that information. I wouldn't trust Bloomberg's group and their stats, as they have an agenda against guns. But buying a gun in one state for resale in another state, to someone not allowed, is already against federal law.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  11. #55
    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    England also has a much different culture, and demographic make-up. You can't simply compare the two in terms of taking guns out of the equation. There is so much more to it than that.

    As the saying goes, "An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a slave." The people in Britain may feel safer, but are they really? I wish the United States had a system in place similar to Switzerland, with a mandatory two years in the military starting at 20 years old, and everyone is issued their service rifles which they keep with them at home. This is a good read if you have some spare time, it really shows how guns don't commit crimes, its the idiots that get their hands on them for unlawful purposes.

    Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  12. #56
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    What do Gun Owners Really Want?

    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
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    New Member Array Gliderguy's Avatar
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    Re: What do Gun Owners Really Want?

    the stat that jumped out at me: 9300 or so firearm as the instrument of death murders in US annually, 8200 murders caused by youth in the US.(method not stated). The US has nearly 6 times the population of the UK (314m vs 56m) but only has three times as many car thefts. (I would believe the per capita car ownership rate of the US to be substantially higher, as well). I cannot understand how there can be 187,000 drug offenses per 100,000 people in the UK.

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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbglock View Post
    I'm fine with background checks, but I have no idea if that puts me in the majority of gun owners. Don't care. My opinions are exactly what I just called them.
    I agree and would go one step further in requiring a uniform, nationwide firearms training class (or proof of attendance at an NRA-like class) focusing on safe operation and storage.

  15. #59
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    Well this gun owner wants more guns
    Lol!

    That's the same thing I thought when I read the headline. I want more guns, ammo and to be left alone (this means you big government).

  16. #60
    Member Array surferbum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    Lol!

    That's the same thing I thought when I read the headline. I want more guns, ammo and to be left alone (this means you big government).
    Just picked up my Glock 26 today. Can't wait to get the 1000 round trigger job done.

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