Top 10 Killers - Gun Control Statistics - Page 2

Top 10 Killers - Gun Control Statistics

This is a discussion on Top 10 Killers - Gun Control Statistics within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Ahh. FBI stats and wikipedia. It must be true....

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Ahh. FBI stats and wikipedia. It must be true.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I have got to figure out how to conceal a baseball bat. And the spare one in case the first one fails! ;-)
    You've got 2 pant legs, one down each one. Of course sitting might be a problem! On the other hand, just think how popular you'd be on ladies night at the bars.
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  3. #18
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    Related stats from the CDC for 2009 (FASTSTATS - Homicide)

    Mortality
    All homicides

    * Number of deaths: 16,799
    * Deaths per 100,000 population: 5.5
    * Cause of death rank: 15

    Firearm homicides

    * Number of deaths: 11,493
    * Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.7

    Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2009, tables 9, 10, 11 Adobe PDF file [PDF - 2.1 MB] Adobe PDF file

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    You've got 2 pant legs, one down each one. Of course sitting might be a problem! On the other hand, just think how popular you'd be on ladies night at the bars.
    Actually one would look a little mutant-like with a bat down each pant leg, no?
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  5. #20
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    I'm assuming that a bat in a 'smart carry' would look a little strange?
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  6. #21
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    Top 10 Killers - Gun Control Statistics

    Quote Originally Posted by jblitz View Post
    What is the ORIGINAL source of this chart? I would like to read the details. I cannot find this chart or the data for it on either the CDC or FBI web sites.

    Don't get me wrong! I am not a doubter, just would like to see the data for myself as I have been wondering about these statistics of late.
    I applaud you for being skeptical. We all need to be sure we have the facts before jumping to conclusions. A pretty bar graph is nice, but means nothing without referencing the source. Give us the link on the FBI web site as supporting evidence.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by relsiswb View Post
    I applaud you for being skeptical. We all need to be sure we have the facts before jumping to conclusions. A pretty bar graph is nice, but means nothing without referencing the source. Give us the link on the FBI web site as supporting evidence.
    Good point. This chart is interesting, but the underlying data is what would really make this a stronger argument. I for one had one big question as I read the chart - what do they define as accidental injury? It's such a broad and vague definition, that it may very well include accidental injury caused by firearms. Likewise, as has been mentioned already, justifiable/self defense shootings may be included in that firearm homicide figure.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by relsiswb View Post
    I applaud you for being skeptical. We all need to be sure we have the facts before jumping to conclusions. A pretty bar graph is nice, but means nothing without referencing the source. Give us the link on the FBI web site as supporting evidence.
    Although not the same, the figures are roughly in line with a CDC Gov report I cited above. The page is for homicide, and it links to a PDF report compiled by the CDC.

    The 15 leading causes of death in 2009 were:
    1. Diseases of heart (heart disease)
    2. Malignant neoplasms (cancer)
    3. Chronic lower respiratory diseases
    4. Cerebrovascular diseases (stroke)
    5. Accidents (unintentional injuries)
    6. Alzheimer’s disease
    7. Diabetes mellitus (diabetes)
    8. Influenza and pneumonia
    9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (kidney disease)
    10. Intentional self-harm (suicide)
    11. Septicemia
    12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
    13. Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease (hypertension)
    14. Parkinson’s disease
    15. Assault (homicide)


    Note the original stats in the original post are a bit skewed; According to the CDC, of 16k homicides, about 11.4k are due to firearms.

  9. #24
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    Top 10 Killers - Gun Control Statistics

    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    Although not the same, the figures are roughly in line with a CDC Gov report I cited above. The page is for homicide, and it links to a PDF report compiled by the CDC.

    The 15 leading causes of death in 2009 were:
    1. Diseases of heart (heart disease)
    2. Malignant neoplasms (cancer)
    3. Chronic lower respiratory diseases
    4. Cerebrovascular diseases (stroke)
    5. Accidents (unintentional injuries)
    6. Alzheimerís disease
    7. Diabetes mellitus (diabetes)
    8. Influenza and pneumonia
    9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (kidney disease)
    10. Intentional self-harm (suicide)
    11. Septicemia
    12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
    13. Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease (hypertension)
    14. Parkinsonís disease
    15. Assault (homicide)


    Note the original stats in the original post are a bit skewed; According to the CDC, of 16k homicides, about 11.4k are due to firearms.
    I posted before seeing your reply, but my comment is still valid. Thanks for the data.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by relsiswb View Post
    I posted before seeing your reply, but my comment is still valid. Thanks for the data.
    The comment is certainly valid, agreed. It appears the original stats presented in the original source of the OP were misinterpreted. Regardless, the CDC report does put into perspective the relative magnitude of firearm homicides v. other death categories.

    And of the 11.4k firearm homicides, the gun was the tool of choice. Those 11.4k would not disappear if guns were not available. They would likely be less, yes, but not gone. And how many more victims of violent crimes would there be? All questions that cannot be answered....It all comes down to the agenda....

  11. #26
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    The "baseball bat" part of this was cooked up:

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/weapons.cfm

    No need to lie in order to make the point. However, the firearm and non-firearm homicide #s look correct. And check this out. Between 2007 and 2010 there were 175 deaths by people who held a concealed carry permit. See this article:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-s..._b_632278.html

    Divide that by 3 gives you about 58 per year. That's 0.5% of the firearm deaths! So, 99.5% of homicides with a firearm are with committed by people who DON'T bother getting a permit! They don't bother with the law so more laws aren't going to stop them!

    [written later]

    I got it wrong. It actually means that 95.5% of homicides didn't have a concealed carry permit. It doesn't meant that they possessed the gun illegally. Sorry for misleading info. I can't find any data on how many violent crimes committed with guns were by guns that were possessed illegally. Can anyone else?
    Last edited by sterfry68; December 9th, 2012 at 04:14 PM. Reason: additional information

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domr View Post
    ^^^this! Anti's would raise high hell if there were talks of limiting alcohol use, yet alcohol results in many more deaths than guns (via accidents and illness). Heck the NFL is in the news again regarding a player death today...this time for a car accident with alcohol involved. You can bet your bottom dollar Bob Costas won't opine on the "evils" of alcohol...can't upset the sponsors
    We tried this in the 1920s with Prohibition....& look how that turned out......One of the unintended consequences was organized crime.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sterfry68 View Post
    <snip>
    And check this out. Between 2007 and 2010 there were 175 deaths by people who held a concealed carry permit. See this article:
    Josh Sugarmann: Murders by Concealed Handgun Permit Holders: 52 Convictions or Suicides and Counting
    Divide that by 3 gives you about 58 per year. That's 0.5% of the firearm deaths! So, 99.5% of homicides with a firearm are with committed by people who DON'T bother getting a permit! They don't bother with the law so more laws aren't going to stop them!

    [written later]

    I got it wrong. It actually means that 95.5% of homicides didn't have a concealed carry permit. It doesn't meant that they possessed the gun illegally. Sorry for misleading info. I can't find any data on how many violent crimes committed with guns were by guns that were possessed illegally. Can anyone else?
    A - I don't give anything Sugarman writes more than one or two grains of salt consideration.

    B - If permit holders in fact committed 0.5% of firearm homicides (and we're not sure how many of those actually count as murder of any sort), it still means a permit holder is less likely to commit such crimes. Permit holders make up about 3% of the US population. So we're six times less likely to murder than the average person.

    C - I don't give Sugarman any credibility in this matter, anyway. Oh, I said that already.
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  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    Click on this link, here, and you'll go to the UCR tables for homicides. The UCR, Uniform Crime Reports, are generally speaking going to be considered a reliable and definitive source of data.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
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