Help me educate someone why civilians need guns.

This is a discussion on Help me educate someone why civilians need guns. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Patti ... carrying a gun is an equilizer. It's just that simple. I REFUSE TO BE A VICTIM! Yup. Help me educate ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    ... carrying a gun is an equilizer.

    It's just that simple.

    I REFUSE TO BE A VICTIM!
    Yup.

    Help me educate someone why civilians need guns.
    Because my life and my survival are in my hands ... nobody else's. Nothing guarantees my right to live or survive, but the 2A guarantees my right to be armed in defense of it. That's about as good as it gets. Hence, I go armed.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Rawah ... Just a thought, but given the recent incidents and the heavy push toward gun-grabbing going on across the country, it might serve you (and us all) better to fine-tune a well-worded letter to be sent to every single elected person you can think of.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #33
    Member Array NiceAsh's Avatar
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    Because we need fewer victims.

    These types of incidents they are seeking both physical and mental dominance. Think if everyone in the Aurora Theater just stood up and rushed the guy, would he have panicked and ran? Instead he saw weak victims that were turning away and running, easier for a coward to shoot someone in the back. Most of these shooters will back down when faced with someone who stands up to them, I think that is what happened in the Oregon Mall shooting. The guy had other weapons, and more ammunition, why did he stop shooting?

    Changes to gun laws will not prevent these people from committing acts of violence. They will always find ways.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    A historical look at gun control. Truth is alien to liberal politics.

    "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future." --Adolf Hitler, 1935

    "Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext, with the view of confiscating them and leaving the population defenseless." --Vladimir Ilich Lenin.

    History has a habit of repeating itself, let us not let it happen.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    A historical look at gun control. Truth is alien to liberal politics.

    "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future." --Adolf Hitler, 1935

    "Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext, with the view of confiscating them and leaving the population defenseless." --Vladimir Ilich Lenin.

    History has a habit of repeating itself, let us not let it happen.
    That Hilter quote has been debunked.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Brad, here is his actual quote:



    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so. Indeed I would go so far as to say that the underdog is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order." - AdolfHitler, April 11, 1942, quoted inHitlers Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942. [Translation:Hitler's Table-Talk at the Fuhrer's Headquarters 1941-1942], Dr. Henry Picker, ed. (Athenaum-Verlag, Bonn, 1951)
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    “All military type firearms are to be handed in immediately...The SS, SA and Stahlhelm give every responsible opportunity of campaigning with them. Therefore anyone who does not belong to one of the above-named organizations and who unjustifiably nevertheless keeps his weapon...must be regarded as an enemy of the national government.” — SA Oberfuhrer of Bad Tolz, March, 1933.

    “Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA — ordinary citizens don’t need guns, as their having guns doesn’t serve the state.” - Heinrich Himmler.

    Sounds like....”You want an assault rifle? Join the Army!”
    ~Rep. Carolyn McCarthy Marxist idiot.

    “Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.” -—Sarah Brady

    “Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe.”
    ~Senator Diane Feinstein, 1993 (No we have a fundamental right to BE safe thanks to the second amendment.)

    “We’re going to hammer guns on the anvil of relentless legislative strategy! We’re going to beat guns into submission!”
    ~Senator Charles Schumer, 1993

    “Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected.” ~ACLU policy statement #47, 1986

    “If someone is so fearful that they are going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, it makes me very nervous that these people have weapons at all.”
    ~Rep. Henry Waxman

    “I say the Second Amendment is, in order of importance, the first amendment. It is America’s First Freedom, the one right that protects all of the others. Among freedom of speech, of the press, of religion, of assembly, of redress of grievances, it is the first among equals. It alone offers the absolute capacity to live without fear. The right to keep and bear arms is the one right that allows to exist at all.”
    ~~~ Charlton Heston, Former NRA President

    You might try home page of JPFO.com (Jews for preservation of Firearms).

    Or:

    Death by "Gun Control"

    to see excerpts from the book:

    Death by “Gun Control” by Aaron Zelman and Richard W. Stevens
    Introduction by James Bovard

    This book discusses 9 genocides that have occurred where dictators and repressive regimes have killed millions when guns were taken away.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

  9. #38
    Member Array Vtxdpm's Avatar
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    This response does not get into the purpose of firearms against tyranny. It only addresses the facts on the failed experiment of "victim disarmament" (Do not refer to it as 'gun control'. Call it what it is.).

    -------
    The violence at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, CT is absolutely horrifying. Like many, I am profoundly saddened by this event. It is a time for grief and mourning, not blame and finger-pointing. Yet, I see many of the usual victim-disarmament advocates preaching on the evils of firearms. Heeding the advice of Rahm Emanuel when he said “You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.”, mayor Bloomberg (among others) is already out there exploiting this tragedy to further their agenda.

    When people argue for “tougher gun laws”, do they realize that the criminals who commit these horrible acts of violence do not obey the law? HELLO!? That's why they are criminals.

    This school was a 'gun free zone'. The theater in Colorado was a 'gun free zone'. Virginia Tech was a 'gun free zone'. In reality, these so-called gun free zones should be labelled “unarmed victim zones”.

    These laws (specifically those banning guns in schools) instead of reducing violent crime, as James Wesley-Rawles points out on his blog posted 12/15/12, are contributory to these tragedies: “The tragic mass murder at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut underscores that fact that in 1996 our own congress turned public schools into gun free zones, making them ideal killing grounds for lunatics. (Where they will only find unarmed victims.) Please contact your legislators and encourage them to rescind the Gun Free School Zones Act (reenacted by Congress, Sep. 30, 1996 --P.L. 104-208.) If even a minority of school teachers were armed (as they are in Israel and South Africa) then slaughters like this could be prevented, or at least minimized.” SurvivalBlog.com

    Look at areas with the most restrictive gun laws in the nation such as Washington D.C. or Chicago. They have some of the highest violent crime rates in the country (if not the world) including crimes using guns. Again, by definition, only the “law-abiding” obey the law.
    The United Kingdom, which has banned most guns, is now considered by many to be the “Violent Crime Capital of Europe”! UK is violent crime capital of Europe - Telegraph

    "The ban on ownership of handguns [in the UK] was introduced in 1997 as a result of the Dunblane massacre, when Thomas Hamilton opened fire at a primary school leaving 16 children and their teacher dead. But the report suggests that despite the restrictions on ownership the use of handguns in crime is rising." BBC News | UK | Handgun crime 'up' despite ban ; The UK Gun Ban - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

    Similarly, Australia is experiencing increased violent crime despite it's gun ban: AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN
    “What about the police? Isn't it their job to protect us?” Actually, no. "The Supreme Court ruled on Monday [June 27, 2005] that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po...otus.html?_r=0
    “The Police Have No Obligation To Protect You. Yes, Really.” - Overlawyered

    In this age of deferred responsibility, and nanny-state protectionism, the hard reality is that the responsibility for our protection, and that of our loved ones, falls directly upon us. Firearms provide us the most effective way to do so. The reduction in violent crime as gun sales increase bears this out. “Gun Sales Rise as Crime, Accident Rates Fall.” http://www.nssf.org/share/BP2/2006/060506.htm?AoI=media

    In closing, I implore you to research the issue for yourselves. See the anti-self-defense propaganda for what it is and seek out the truth. Base your position on logic and facts and not the emotional appeal of tyrants and hypocrites.


    Speaking of hypocrites...

    Something else you will not hear discussed by the mainstream media is the fact that many of his so called “Mayors Against Guns” are themselves convicted pedophiles, embezzlers, wife beaters, cheaters and violent thugs. Bloomberg's merry band of criminal mayors: Gun Owners Against Illegal Mayors -- Stop the Bloomberg Gang! ; MILLER: Crimes of gun-grabbing mayors - Washington Times

    Lastly, this armed civilian stopped a mall shooter before the attacker could hurt more innocent people:
    Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter | kgw.com Portland

  10. #39
    Member Array Rawah's Avatar
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    Hey guys... I have done a bunch of editing today. It's still long. And I'm not sure if I want to shorten it and give up some things that I feel are important and really tie things together IMO. I will however let you guys have a look knowing it will be impossible to please everyone that may prefer it be written in a different way.

    I do have a question... Much of It are things other members here posted in an effort that I truly appreciate. I am wondering if I need to give references on anything I didn't. If anyone that Is good with this kind of stuff could give me their opinion I would appreciate it. I'd hate not to give credit where it is do and also run the risk of getting in trouble if ive missed things I should have cited. I truly appreciate everyone's willingness to help so far. I will post the next draft of this essay/article or whatever it should be called shortly.

  11. #40
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    I think Sandy Hook is a very effective illustration why civilians need guns. One of the first news items I saw was how quikly the police where on the scene. 26 people were killed while waiting for the police to respond. This is not a slam on police; they cannot be everywhere.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Very true. The OP was asking for help in convincing someone why civillians need to own a gun.

    I think the most effective argument is that a madman bent on killing people inevitably picks victims who are defenseless and unarmed. Notice the shooter didn't walk into a police station and start unloading. He would have been cut in half within seconds of pulling his gun out from under his jacket.

    Instead, he picks on a classroom full of 6 years olds.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

  13. #42
    New Member Array mfarnham's Avatar
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    Help me educate someone why civilians need guns.


  14. #43
    Member Array Rawah's Avatar
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    Okay... It's long. About 3.5 pages

    . Edit...Still more changes to be made. I am going to chop it down quite a bit.

    CCW9MM,
    I like that idea a lot. I am open to suggestions on the content of a letter to send article possible.
    Last edited by Rawah; December 17th, 2012 at 11:14 AM.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rawah View Post
    A great read on Japanese Gun Control
    Japanese Gun Control

    I would like to give a special thanks to those who have helped me gather and gain the information to make this article possible. Scientia Potentia Est!
    I just finished reading the Japanese Gun Control article you linked. Absolutely fascinating, thank you for sharing.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    I think Sandy Hook is a very effective illustration why civilians need guns. One of the first news items I saw was how quikly the police where on the scene. 26 people were killed while waiting for the police to respond. This is not a slam on police; they cannot be everywhere.
    Taking full and active responsibility for our own lives and those around us (in such violent/deadly situations) would be a very good step as any component of effective measures to increasing security, absolutely.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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