Help me educate someone why civilians need guns.

This is a discussion on Help me educate someone why civilians need guns. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; An aquaintenace sent out a mass message asking" can someone please explain to me why civilians need guns again?". I would like to cover everything ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Rawah's Avatar
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    Help me educate someone why civilians need guns.

    An aquaintenace sent out a mass message asking" can someone please explain to me why civilians need guns again?".

    I would like to cover everything from why the right for citizens to bear arms was important and written in the 2A. To why gun control laws don't work while giving examples.

    Please keep all responses respectful as I'm hoping he might learn something.
    I've written stuff and used some good points other members have made here but I'm sure some of you here could explain this way better than I can.
    I'm looking for a well written articulate response if someone is willing to write one.

    Any takers willing to help try and educate someone possibly on the fence as well as others included in this message?

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    To answer your question about "need" we have to look to the intent and purpose of the Second Amendment. The ammendment as a whole is used to justify keeping guns for many purposes, but it had nothing to do with hunting or sport shooting. The idea was that the citizenry would be armed equaly well, if not better than the standing army. The citizen militia is the last line of defense against foreign enemies, but also against a tyranical government who might seek to oppress we the people. In order for this to be an effective deterant, the people "need" to keep and be trained in the use of military type weapons. Consider it a nuclear deterant on an individual scale. Should we have to live in a world where governments would oppress and slaughter their own people? No, but we do, so the founders made sure that we could keep that from happening in our great country. So yes, there is a need.

    And I'm sure they will say... But that is just the militia which is the National Guard, right? Only they need weapons. But the preamble to the 2A which talks about the militia is actually just listing one possible explanation as to why they would specify this right. It is not necessary nor all inclusive of the reasons for the right if you look into the historical and legal language that the constitution was written in. But even if it were, the term militia at the time refered to every able bodied man. All people were part of the militia, and while many army units were still using muskets, lots of the militia supplied their own weapons, and had much more accurate and longer shooting rifles. Everyone was expected to be prepared to serve their country if needed. You were also expected to know how to use your weapon.

    On a more local/individual level, "An armed society is a polite society". If everyone was armed, things would stay very civil and thugs would not intimidate with impunity.
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    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    Because violent criminals will always have them, even if law abiding citizens can't. Do you really want to live in a society where only criminals are armed? Do you want law abiding citizens to be restricted to 5 rounds vs criminals with no restrictions?

    Criminals don't obey laws.

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    Member Array Rawah's Avatar
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    Oh man... So far there have been a few pro2a responses but nothing very good. Lots of emotional statements by a bunch of anti 2A people. Stuff that incorrect, it's driving me nuts reading it...
    I've been on bed rest with some health issues for the last couple weeks. I really don't have it in me to write a long articulate response right now which is the reason Im asking to see if anyone else is up for it.
    Example using cities such as Chicago and other places with strict gun control laws and how they don't work are very welcomed. I'm going to close my eyes for a bit and rest...

    Example of places where CCW has been allowed and crime rates have fallen are also great examples.
    Some of these people truly believe taking guns out of law abiding citizens will reduce crime. I would like to counter that argument with as many examples as possible.

    I may not respond as it seems to be a bunch of people basing these things off emotions and not logic after this new shooting. If some here do have a good response... I will speak up though. There are many people who probably haven't heard our feelings and may be on the fence still. Hopefully a well stated response might help them understand better.

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    Member Array Rawah's Avatar
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    Thanks for the responses! Guess I'll have to use them since you have taken the time to respond. Keep them coming and many thanks...

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    VIP Member Array Thunder71's Avatar
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    I will add however, that this is not a good time to try and push pro gun arguments. It's a time to allow the families and friends of those who are grieving to have some compassion from others, I wish anti gun people would do the same.

    Anti's will be quick to blame the gun, let them... nobody will change their mind. But right now, I'm personally going to get off my pro gun soap box and take a step back (not down) in the public arena.

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    Member Array malexander's Avatar
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    Americans with guns. That's one reason the Japanese didn't try to invade America by land. They KNEW [all] American households were armed.

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    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    As far as examples go, there is a lot of anecdotal stories out there, and I don't have all of the facts, but the UK and Australia are both examples of where guns were outlawed, and then only the outlaws had guns. Violent crime spiked in both countries after their bans. Yes, gun crime eventually dropped as the supply dried up (which would not happen in our country) but the violent crime rate continued to go up. Criminals were emboldened by the defenselessness of their victims, and the United Kingdom became the Animal Kingdom where the strong prey on the weak, the old and the infirm.

    Or, as you suggest, look at Chicago, DC or NY. Cities with the strictest gun control laws consistantly have the highest crime and murder rates.

    For a good story, look at Kennesaw, GA. They passed a law requireing the head of household to own a firearm and ammunition. Their crime rates dropped more than 50% the next year and are consistantly less than similar localities. The city claims to have the lowest crime rate in the country.

    For more detail, look into the book "More Guns Less Crime" by John Lott. He has some great statistics and arguments.
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    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    The 2nd Amendment was written specifically because the founders thought civilians needed guns. In that context, the guns were needed to keep the government from overstepping its bounds and becoming a weapon of despotic rule and tyranny. Civilians need firearms because the government has them, and in order to keep the government in check, we need a fighting chance, which is where guns come in.

    That aside, we have a God-given right to self defense, and firearms are the greatest equalizer against an aggressor who is bigger, stronger, faster, and comes in greater numbers to take our lives or the lives of our loved ones.

    Firearms are a tool for the preservation of our life and liberty, and this was such a foundational thought that it was included second only to our freedom of speech and religion in our own Constitution.
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    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    If you look back at history, no country has attempted a ground attack on the U.S. Pearl Harbor was an air attack and the German's never attempted to attack our shores. The reason for both is the same, and has been documented by the Japanese and German's. They basically said behind every blade grass will be an armed citizen. The armed citizens equates to the world's largest armed force and no-one wants to attempt to invade such a country.
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    [QUOTE"can someone please explain to me why civilians need guns again?".[/QUOTE]


    How old is this guy?

    He may be beyond help if he hasn't figured it out already.

    Good luck.
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    Tell him Civilians DONT need guns, but CITIZENS do!
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    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    I don't think that any specific citizen necessarily needs a gun - that's a personal choice that I'll completely respect. What I want, though, is that freedom to choose. What citizens need is the ability to have guns. These are different things.
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    Senior Member Array mwhartman's Avatar
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    As Thomas Jefferson said, "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."

    I doubt most will understand but it is not confrontational and we do not need any anger or hostility right now.
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    Member Array Rawah's Avatar
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    I think the point has respectfully been well made. Thanks for all the extra ammo(as in help).
    Hot guns, I think you're right... He's gotta be around my age or slightly younger... So thirty I'd guess.
    I'm done with that conversation. I know many saw the pro2A points being made.
    The others... Ya probably never going to convince them...

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