What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters. - Page 3

What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters.

This is a discussion on What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Billb1960 This...

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billb1960 View Post
    This
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
    William T. Sherman


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    "Video games don't turn kids into killers any more than liking the color purple makes you gay"


    IMO, these are not games but killing videos....and.....How do you know liking the color purple.....doesn't make you Gay.......? Hmmmm.........

  3. #33
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    I don't know what's changed, but it's not movies, video games or even rap music. I'm starting to think that some people are taking this apocalypse nonsense a bit to seriously. Who knows. God not allowed in schools...doubt it. Kids not spanked...could be. People are just messed up in the head...that sounds about right. The world is going to Hell in a handcart and we are just along for the ride. That's why we, as citizens, need to do what we can to protect ourselves and our loved ones.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPro.40 View Post
    Isn't this kind of like an antis saying if we get rid of all the video games (guns) the kids (people) would quit killing. How do you know the shooter even had a play station or an Xbox. I wish my son didn't play so much video too but, I have never seen or related any connection to him going nuts on anyone. He's an honor roll student four years running, has a job teaching the kids Tie Kwon Doe class and has achieved a 2nd degree in traditional Tie Kwon Do. He is 17. His room is dirty and I have to make him take out the trash. Typical kid while exhibiting great character at the same time. We eat together and have family time together. I don't have to make him do that. He has friends I approve of and goes to a church group on Tuesdays. Get him on Call of Duty and he'll kick your a**. I've tried. He's just a kid. Psychopaths are just psychopaths. You can't say video games make killers any more than you can say guns kill people. Just my two cents worth.
    My point is that children that have boarderline psychological problems that don't associate with other people (or children of there own age) or don't interact with others (you do that by going outside with other kids in your area) seem to regress to the point of believing the computer or the video game is now there best friend and they immerse themselves in the world of fantasy. And some parents (or parent) have used the computer or video game as a babysitter because they are to busy. These video game provide a pathway for violence to those kids who are boarderline. This kid in Ct. was just such a person.Most of these shooters are loaners, some are very intelligent some are not but they are all loaners. Don't try and rationalize these people - just stop and think - What person in their right mind goes into any school and shoots children (Columbine - Virginia Tech - or worse yet Sandy Hook). It is a sad commentary on what society we live in today - as parents we are suppose to make it better.
    " Life is tough and it gets tougher if your stupid." John Wayne.

  5. #35
    Member Array usmcj's Avatar
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    Two things...

    1. Poor, if any parenting

    2. Unwillingness to assume responsibility, or failure to be held accountable...
    NRA Life Member ... Marine Corps League Life Member
    Freedom has a flavor the protected can never taste...
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  6. #36
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer View Post
    There's just one hell of a truth in that statement. BRING IT BACK.
    The draft? You got to be kidding me. The draft was not instituted to form a social conscience. It was to get enough people to fight in WWI and then continued onto other wars. How on earth would that help with some of these tragedies?

    A lot of gang bangers are not of draft age and by the time they are they have committed crimes that would preclude them frim the military

    - Timothy McVeigh was in the army as well as his co conspirators
    -Aurora? Yeah, I am sure that bott camp would have brought some sense to this sick persons mind
    - Conn? The man could not possibly get into the military with his mental condition or what ever he had
    -Columbine? They were still in HS
    - Iowa shooting in 91, done by a student from China

    My list goes on and on

    I did a look at all of these mass shooting and killings since 1985 and others and most would not have been stopped by the "draft" Many were under 18, some were in there 30-50's and had been in the military, others were mentaly ill (no excuse, just could not get into the military), a few were not US citizens.

    So please, tell me how the draft would help out all of these mass shootings.

    Sorry, it is just a cliche that folks use without doing any research. Just like there needs to be more God in schools. Just nice catch phrases that makes people feel like there is a simple solution to a complex and hard to understand problem we have with folks in this country.
    TX expat likes this.
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  7. #37
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    What has changed about our society that has created these mass shooters.

    Quote Originally Posted by peckman28 View Post
    Yes, let's ban videogames that we find objectionable, but turn around and complain when statist morons want to take away scary looking guns. Scapegoating gets us nowhere; your freedoms are that much more insecure when you try to deflect an attack on your chosen, victimless activity by focusing on how someone else's is the REAL problem and we need to address THAT. In the end, no more Grand Theft Auto AND no more AR15s. This despite that fact that violence is lower in this country than it has been in decades, despite the increased prevalence of both in recent years. Oops.
    Interesting point. My kids have played video games and my son has played the first person shooter games. Believe what you want but todays children are more desensitized to violence then the last generation. Just as my generation is more desensitized than my parents were as kids. Not sayig videogames are the reason for mass killings. But society as a whole places less value on human life. Movies, games AND real life all prove that. Think about the evolution of video games......pong. Atari space invaders. Super mario brothers, sonic the hedgehog. Sports games. Grand theft auto, call of duty. Halo. Its a different kind of entertainment. The new shooter games are steeped in reality, without the consequences. I know teenagers that know more about automatic weapons, firing rates, and ballistics than i do. All from these games. Im not in favor of banning anything, but im not blind either
    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Array DPro.40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mook012 View Post
    My point is that children that have boarderline psychological problems that don't associate with other people (or children of there own age) or don't interact with others (you do that by going outside with other kids in your area) seem to regress to the point of believing the computer or the video game is now there best friend and they immerse themselves in the world of fantasy. And some parents (or parent) have used the computer or video game as a babysitter because they are to busy. These video game provide a pathway for violence to those kids who are boarderline. This kid in Ct. was just such a person.Most of these shooters are loaners, some are very intelligent some are not but they are all loaners. Don't try and rationalize these people - just stop and think - What person in their right mind goes into any school and shoots children (Columbine - Virginia Tech - or worse yet Sandy Hook). It is a sad commentary on what society we live in today - as parents we are suppose to make it better.
    I understand your view point but video games haven't been linked to any of your presented shootings. Fixation upon a video game may be an outlet for the disturbed but its being disturbed that's the issue, not a video game. Would you equate staring at a fish tank turns scuba divers into whale killers? Would you equate the love of firearms turns people into mass murders. If you can I would be the first to read your theory. There is no person in there right mind that goes out and kills 20 kids...that's the point. I suspect those that blame videos, movies ect already had a predisposition for strange and erratic behavior. If you can't tell the difference between right and wrong, you can't blame that on a video. That's home schooled.
    CharlesMorri likes this.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Array cn262's Avatar
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    I have thought about this for years, and believe there are several contributing factors. One is the internet - instant information, combined with cable / satellite TV that allows 24x7 news coverage. The quote from Dr. Dietz (bottom) is the first time I've seen a statement this strong about that. It seems to make a lot of sense.

    Aside from the facts that seem to show things are not getting worse relative to population (previously mentioned by others on this thread), there does seem to be a big difference over the past 25-30 years.

    In 1980 I brought my Win 94 30-30 rifle to school as part of a High School speech on deer hunting. The teacher gave me the OK without checking with anyone. No problem on the bus, bringing it into school (cased), or storing it in my locker. After lunch I retrieved the rifle for my speech, and we passed it around the room. After that I brought it back to my locker and ran into the Principal. He asked if it was unloaded and if I had any ammo. I told him yes and no (respectively), and then he asked me about my talk, pat me on the shoulder and told me to get back to class quickly. It's surreal if you think about the world today, but back then it was no big deal. We used to shoot .22 rifles at the YMCA on Saturday mornings in the basement of their facility. Again, something that would shock people today but was no big deal then.

    Lt. Dave Grossman blames a lot of this on violent media (movies, TV, music) and violent video games. He says that the the video games today are extremely similar to what was used to train troops in the mid 1990's. I'm a bit old to be a big gamer, but there seems to be a correlation between the approach of those games and many of these high bodycount shootings. Grossman shows stats showing that this is not just an American problem. Who knows.

    Finally, since the 1990's and Bill Clinton, society has been tolerant of a lack of personal accountability. People now want to look outwards to blame something or someone else. America is not the land of the victims and the home of the weak. We're the land of the free and the home of the brave. As such, you try to do what you believe is the right thing and then be responsible and accountable for the outcome. We've got to stop making excuses for bad people and bad events. The could also be a correlation in this with the decline in faith over roughly the same period.

    So personally, I believe that there have been significant changes that have at least contributed to these changes in society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billb1960 View Post

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    Interesting point. My kids have played video games and my son has played the first person shooter games. Believe what you want but todays children are more desensitized to violence then the last generation. Just as my generation is more desensitized than my parents were as kids. Not sayig videogames are the reason for mass killings. But society as a whole places less value on human life. Movies, games AND real life all prove that. Think about the evolution of video games......pong. Atari space invaders. Super mario brothers, sonic the hedgehog. Sports games. Grand theft auto, call of duty. Halo. Its a different kind of entertainment. The new shooter games are steeped in reality, without the consequences. I know teenagers that know more about automatic weapons, firing rates, and ballistics than i do. All from these games. Im not in favor of banning anything, but im not blind either
    Yes and back in the 1950s and 1960s "society" endorsed the notion that the State owns your body, and can confiscate it to send it to Southeast Asian nations to fight and die in pointless, no-win wars. You're trying to tell me we place less of a value on human life now than we did "then" because we have violent videogames? I don't buy it for one second. If we placed less value on human life now these kinds of things should be more common, but they aren't. There wasn't even a copy of Doom in existence in 1992, and that's when our murder rate peaked in this country. Sad though it is, there are crazy people out there. Always have been and always will be. On the same day as Newtown some lunatic in China walked into a school and slashed 22 kids. Trying to find some "root cause" is going to drive you up a wall and you're never going to get anywhere with it.

  11. #41
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    Why it's the rise of the Religious Right of course!!! It all started when Reagan was elected!!

    Yeah. Reagan!

    And Jerry Falwell!!!

    And the tax exempt status of Mega Churches!!!

    All that preaching about the Old testament and smiting and stuff!!!

    Yeah that's it, it's the genocidal smiting in the Old testament!!!

    Oh...the Tea Party!!!

    All those people are fanatics aren't they??? Yeah that's it!!!!

    Okay seriously now a correlation isn't a causation...

    Everyone has their own hobby horse that they like to trot out and gallop past the stands but in the end it really comes down to unstable people getting their hands on weapons. But the "crazy" comes first in all instances and that's where you have to "nip it in the bud"

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array bklynboy's Avatar
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    What's changed?....Deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill since the 1960's and the demise of the two parent household

  13. #43
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    It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
    ... people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

    CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.
    CharlesMorri, mano3 and MrsHB like this.

  14. #44
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    We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
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  15. #45
    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    IMHO:

    1. The media sensationalizing EVERYTHING and the speed at how news stories travel world-wide. Minor stuff happening in 'East Ja-bip' is front page news in seconds. 20 years ago, you'd have never heard of "Eat Ja-bip'.

    2. Decline of family values and rise in one parent households. Some of these single parents wear that title like a badge of honor. How many families still have dinner all together without the TV blaring?

    3. Political correctness run amok. Try spanking your kid in the grocery store today and see what happens. Back in my day, my friends parents could spank you, then they called your house and you got spanked again by your parents! You were held accountable for everything.

    4. Isolation. Kids today aren't as social; they text and use social networking media to communicate. I had a parent scold me because I haven't supplied my 10 and 12 year olds with cell phones yet!

    Just my thoughts...
    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." George Mason

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